It’s not just EA doing Loot Boxes, it’s all over gaming now and starting to become a standard.
> On Dec 26, 2017, at 7:37 AM, Justin Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > > Making menus accessible isn't enough, but it is a start. My only > concern is that this is EA and not a more reputable company. I figure > that EA will charge extra for accessibility features. Have a look at > the lootbox controversy-if you haven't already heard of it by now. > > On 12/26/17, Lenron <[email protected]> wrote: >> What EA is doing is pretty awesome. Once we get away to read the game >> menus accessibly. I think we will be just about there. I know there is >> a long way to go though, because most other main stream Game >> Developers really don't focus on accessibility. I mean there are some >> games I have and will just play with out the accessibility and do ok >> but it doesn't solved the problem of readable menus. I would love to >> be able to enjoy titles like Skyrim, fall out 4 and a few others. >> >> On 12/19/17, john <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I don't particularly care if you take me seriously, only that you do your >>> homework before spouting. >>> Take a look through a few tech news sites if you'd prefer to read >>> articles >>> on the subject. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Justin Jones" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:30 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> Yeah, a more powerful version of BGT would be very nice. I would love >>> to see things like 3D sounds and database support. It's early, so >>> those are the two things that I can think of off the top of my head. >>> >>> I wouldn't trust anything the FCC is putting out right now, given what >>> they are trying to do to the Internet. Incidentally, it made my day >>> when I found out that Ajit Pai was doxxed. >>> >>> If you want me to take you seriously on the subject of politics John, >>> then don't provide links to an agency that is under the control of one >>> of the most corrupt presidential administrations in U.S. history. >>> >>> On 12/19/17, john <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Here's a start for the political aspect. >>>> I'm fully aware this is a waver notice. Its expired. Hunt down more info >>>> if >>>> >>>> you really want to have an informed discussion, rather than making >>>> blatantly >>>> >>>> untrue statements that are easily refuted by two minutes work. >>>> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-extends-acs-waiver-video-game-software >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Justin Jones" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 18:42 >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>> >>>> Okay, it's a start. I'll concede that much; but we have a long way to >>>> go and most of my points still stand. >>>> >>>> On the political front, i.e. enforcing/creating legislation for >>>> accessibility-and not only games-we are completely screwed here in the >>>> United States-unless we can elect a Democrat-controlled Congress. >>>> That, however, is another topic for another time. >>>> >>>> P.S. Do not confuse a realistic appraisal of a situation with >>>> bitterness; you only undermine your own credibility. >>>> >>>> On 12/18/17, Joshua Tubbs <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Well, hold on a minute. Not fully accessible. No talking menus yet. >>>>> Making >>>>> plays and the actual gameplay, with vision assists on, is pretty >>>>> accessible. >>>>> It’s also not fully accessible because there needs to be more things >>>>> implemented for the passing game. The workaround that Karen, Ea Sport’s >>>>> accessibility lead, came up with isn’t deficient enough, though it is >>>>> for >>>>> pretty much everyone else but me lol. >>>>> >>>>> HTH. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Josh Kennedy <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> EA games has an accessibility department now. Madden nfl is fully >>>>>> accessible on xBox within the past 3 or so months. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >>>>>> Windows 10 >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Justin Jones <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 16:37 >>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>> >>>>>> Warning, wall of text to follow; apologies in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Amusing; I have a bridge to sell you guys. Your sentimentality does >>>>>> not line up with the stark economic reality of game >>>>>> development/publishing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Up until recently, I have been playing mainstream games for over >>>>>> thirty years. I lost the rest of my eyesight a couple of years ago and >>>>>> my old habits and preferences for gaming were, for obvious reasons, >>>>>> barred to me. Over the literal decades of gaming I have done, I have >>>>>> never seen one instance of a mainstream publisher/developer take an >>>>>> interest in creating games with substantial accessibility features for >>>>>> the blind. Not. One. Single. Instance. Any accessibility features, >>>>>> i.e. hotkeys and the like, are only incidentally blind-friendly and >>>>>> not put in by actual intent of the game designer to cater to us. I am >>>>>> not blaming them for this, rather I am pointing out the hard facts of >>>>>> life. >>>>>> >>>>>> If we want to play mainstream games, it is up to us to adapt. In no >>>>>> instance, ever, is a developer/publisher going to insert a feature for >>>>>> their Triple A title just to satisfy one or two people's desire for >>>>>> additional accessibility. With games, they are on tight development >>>>>> schedules and only have so much time to devote to a single title >>>>>> before they move on and start working on the next game. Harsh, but >>>>>> this gets back to the ruthless economics of game development. >>>>>> >>>>>> Speaking of the ruthlessness of gaming economics, mainstream >>>>>> publishers are interested in how they can increase their profitability >>>>>> and they are not going to do that by making their games accessible to >>>>>> a very small minority of people. This is a fact; you do not have to >>>>>> like it, but there it is. Electronic Arts, for instance, is more >>>>>> concerned with how they can screw their existing gamer base over with >>>>>> lootboxes and micro-transactions. You would have to show me hard >>>>>> evidence that they have any interest in us as a community. In other >>>>>> words, I am being that guy: links or it didn't happen (and that >>>>>> includes my argument from the previous paragraph). >>>>>> >>>>>> The same goes with any other mainstream publishing company whether it >>>>>> be Activision-Blizzard or Sega; the market share just isn't there to >>>>>> develop for blind gamers. Indi developers, on the other hand, might be >>>>>> an avenue of approach, but they have all they can do just to stay >>>>>> afloat. If it comes down to developing a sure-fire winner of a title >>>>>> for sighted players or taking a chance on developing something for the >>>>>> blind, nine times out of ten, they will do the former and not the >>>>>> latter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another point I would like to raise is that inclusiveness is just now >>>>>> becoming a thing in the mainstream gaming scene, i.e. recognition of >>>>>> LBGTQ main characters or strong female protagonists that do not fall >>>>>> back on male stereotypes. Yes, it has taken this long and the process >>>>>> is in its infancy. If the mainstream gaming community ever decides to >>>>>> take us seriously as gamers, it is going to be a very long time >>>>>> (decades, if ever). >>>>>> >>>>>> If we, as blind gamers, want the equivalent of good mainstream games, >>>>>> then it is up to us to do it for ourselves-as with everything else >>>>>> that we, as blind people, have had to accomplish over the years. >>>>>> Therefore, what is the point in trying to provide accessibility >>>>>> features to the sighted when they have zero interest in doing so? This >>>>>> isn't about tit-for-tat, rather this is confronting reality and not >>>>>> trying to construct a fantasy world in which the mainstream gaming >>>>>> community take us seriously. >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, if anyone has any links to hard evidence that shows a genuine >>>>>> sea change in mainstream gaming community practices toward blind >>>>>> inclusiveness, then feel free to post them here and I will be happy to >>>>>> give them a look. Also, and more importantly, I will only take >>>>>> attempts at accessibility seriously-from the mainstream gaming >>>>>> developer community-when they start announcing attempts at making >>>>>> games like Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft, Dawn of War III, Metroid >>>>>> Prime IV, Assassin's Creed or any equivalent titles with blind players >>>>>> in mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, sorry for the wall of text. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12/18/17, Damien Sykes <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Shaun, >>>>>>> Yeah. Much as I hate to admit it, I was diagnosed with autism >>>>>>> myself, >>>>>>> near >>>>>>> the aspergers end. I say I hate to admit it, but only because people >>>>>>> judge >>>>>>> me harshly for it. I'm not ashamed of it, it's who I am. But I am >>>>>>> ashamed of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> some of my childhood attitudes. Whether that was my autism, or >>>>>>> whether >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> >>>>>>> just full of hatred anger and bitterness, I don't know, and I don't >>>>>>> particularly care to go back there neither. That was a very dark >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me. To be honest, I think I was possibly more angry with life than I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> with any particular person or group of people. I still struggle with >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> emotions even today, but on a very different level. >>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Shaun Everiss >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 8:25 PM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree damien. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was like this from 15-20 years then from 26-30, but I am ok now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A lot of things did not pan out and I have accepted though I am >>>>>>> still >>>>>>> bitter about some of those things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I however can't do anything about them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 19/12/2017 9:18 a.m., Damien Sykes wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Justin, >>>>>>>> Your below message represents almost the exact bitter and >>>>>>>> prejudiced >>>>>>>> thoughts of a 14-year-old me. Sighted people probably have a good >>>>>>>> thousand >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> games to every one of ours. So why should we give a damn? But no. >>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to try and include everyone, otherwise we are not only stooping to >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> level, if indeed they are doing it maliciously, which most don't >>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be. But we are also cutting off our nose to spite our face. Make a >>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>> known game, make it for the blind only, have a family game night, >>>>>>>> fire >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> up and you'll see what I mean. You're totally isolating yourself >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> everyone else and that's not fair on you, or them. >>>>>>>> Recently I've been looking into new languages so that I can start >>>>>>>> messing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> around seeing if I can make big grand audio games, but also to see >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can create some online games that I can play with my family. It's >>>>>>>> lonely >>>>>>>> when your family are playing without you, or when you're playing a >>>>>>>> game >>>>>>>> solo that is meant to be multiplayer. If anything has shown me how >>>>>>>> important this kind of stuff is, it's the value of family. >>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Jones >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:34 PM >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am going to have to respectfully disagree; for an audio game, for >>>>>>>> people with no visual acuity, visual elements are both a waste of >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> and resources. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If I were, for example, to try and develop a role-playing game >>>>>>>> along >>>>>>>> the same lines as Baldur's Gate, production time would be increased >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> at least a factor of two. A visual interface is very different than >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> audio one-especially for role-playing games. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This might sound a little petty (and if it does, I could not care >>>>>>>> less), but the mainstream gaming industry has made it very clear >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> accessibility and inclusiveness for blind players is not anything >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> a priority. Why should we, as blind gamers/game developers, make >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> sort of effort to include that group of gamers? Put differently, if >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sighted person wants to play an audio game, there is nothing >>>>>>>> stopping >>>>>>>> them from doing so, but it is not our problem if they complain over >>>>>>>> the lack of a visual interface/feedback. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is my chief complaint with A Hero's Call: Out of Sight Games >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> attempting to prostitute itself to a community that does not give a >>>>>>>> damn about an indi developer trying to make a game for both blind >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sighted people. Unless Out of Sight Games has a hidden art >>>>>>>> department >>>>>>>> as a part of their team, no sighted person (other than the curious) >>>>>>>> will purchase their game. Why would they? They have Skyrim, Diablo >>>>>>>> III, Path of Exile, Fallout 4, and so on. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I disagree. There are times where having visual feedback is >>>>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>>> Especially in a game that you’d want to put in schools. >>>>>>>>> There should never be a reason not to include visual elements. >>>>>>>>> Access >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> all works both ways. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Damien Sykes >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 11:09 AM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> I don’t know why, but I like the fact that there’s no visual >>>>>>>>> element. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> that a UI won’t make or break an audio game, but if there’s no UI >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> have no choice but to go fully audio, and it really makes you >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> what information needs to be conveyed. Almost like writing your >>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>> mini >>>>>>>>> and/or virtual screen reader, I guess. I must say, it was a fun >>>>>>>>> challenge >>>>>>>>> conceptualising and writing the audio form. >>>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Liam Erven >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:52 PM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My biggest issues are lack of cross-platform, lack of >>>>>>>>> environmental >>>>>>>>> effects, >>>>>>>>> and no way to do any sort of visual UI. That’s been an issue in >>>>>>>>> Brain >>>>>>>>> Station unfortunately. >>>>>>>>> This is the problem when you get too comfortable with a scripting >>>>>>>>> language >>>>>>>>> like what was stated earlier. You don’t want to learn anything >>>>>>>>> else. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Damien Sykes >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:39 AM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Justin, >>>>>>>>> Indeed there are workarounds for these issues, but they are >>>>>>>>> trivial >>>>>>>>> compared >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to some of the bigger limitations. No 3d. No audio effects >>>>>>>>> (filtering, >>>>>>>>> reverb etc). Not cross-platform. Can't really do anything with >>>>>>>>> binary >>>>>>>>> data >>>>>>>>> unless you do all the calculations and conversions yourself. >>>>>>>>> Tantrums >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> the garbage collector from time to time, which of course will >>>>>>>>> reduce >>>>>>>>> performance. No real way of totally resetting the state of >>>>>>>>> execution. >>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>> course you can reset all the variables, but the call stack will >>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>> show a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> call to reset... >>>>>>>>> The binary data and reset state aren't big showstoppers for me. >>>>>>>>> Even >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> cross platform isn't a big deal for me. I only ever use Windows >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> work, only ever use Linux for server admin through SSH and I don't >>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>> myself getting a mac or phone anytime soon. But performance is >>>>>>>>> definitely >>>>>>>>> important in any product, and since I'm seeing more and more games >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of 3d audio and environmental effects, if I made another game I'd >>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> able to use that. >>>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Justin Jones >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:11 PM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One example of this sort of limitation is that BGT will only allow >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the reading of string data types from a file and nothing else. For >>>>>>>>> example, if you tell BGT to output a series of numbers into a text >>>>>>>>> file, it does this just fine, but if you try to read those numbers >>>>>>>>> back into a piece of code as integers, i.e. assigning the values >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> integer data type, BGT kicks back an error. Of course, there is a >>>>>>>>> work-around for this, but you have to use the string conversion >>>>>>>>> functions to convert a string data type to an integer data type. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> is an odd limitation, considering that the other programming >>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>> I've worked with in the past do not have this problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another example of a limitation for BGT is data validation. If you >>>>>>>>> were to have the user input a number, there is no built-in >>>>>>>>> functionality for the input box function to perform data >>>>>>>>> validation. >>>>>>>>> Again, there are work-arounds for this, but this ought to have >>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>> something that is a part of the input box function. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I freely admit that I could be wrong concerning both of these >>>>>>>>> examples. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> It’s still a scripting language by definition. It’s good for >>>>>>>>>> games, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> much else. Also has several limitations which could be >>>>>>>>>> problematic. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Josh Kennedy >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:36 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sam tupy’s elaborate survive the wild game was written entirely >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> bgt. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Jones >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 07:31 >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So long as you understand that BGT isn't a real programming >>>>>>>>>> language, >>>>>>>>>> as it falls under scripting. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It's not a bad start though, as it can do plenty of cool things >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> also serves as an intro to game programming, but it is only an >>>>>>>>>> intro. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/17/17, Josh Kennedy <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Try the free bgt toolkit. Free blind game makers toolkit. Just >>>>>>>>>>> google >>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>> bgt blind game makers toolkit. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Marvin Hunkin via Groups.Io >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 20:23 >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi. maybe this is too technical. But do you know of any blind >>>>>>>>>>> developers >>>>>>>>>>> developing an accessible game framework and also an accessible >>>>>>>>>>> diagramming >>>>>>>>>>> software. If so, let me know. And also what’s the steps to >>>>>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> accessible game say for windows. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>> Ps: also for like mobile, ios, android, x box, etc. thanks. >>>>>>>>>>> Ps: thinking of doing a diploma of interactive gaming from my >>>>>>>>>>> school,and >>>>>>>>>>> they have like a few subjects, 3d interactive gaming and >>>>>>>>>>> designing >>>>>>>>>>> 3d >>>>>>>>>>> graphics, etc. any one done these type of courses. Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>>>>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>>>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>> [email protected] >>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> [email protected] >>> (254) 624-9155 >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Lenron Brown >> Cell: 985-271-2832 >> Skype: ron.brown762 >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Justin M. Jones, M.A. > [email protected] > (254) 624-9155 > 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#118179): https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/message/118179 View All Messages In Topic (33): https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/topic/7625742 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/7625742/21656 New Topic: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/post Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/editsub/21656 Group Home: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers Contact Group Owner: [email protected] Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/leave/607459/1071380848/xyzzy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
