I think lootboxes really are just people trying to make a buck using gambling mechanics. I don't see that they make games any better at all.
We thought really hard about how we wanted money to work in AA, and even after all these years I'm happy with and proud of our choices. A big part of that is because we wanted to make a good game, not because we wanted to make a lot of cash. EA seems to me exactly opposite: it feels like they want to make money, and the game quality is irrelevant as long as the money pours in. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://alteraeon.com On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Joshua Tubbs <[email protected]> wrote: > It’s not just EA doing Loot Boxes, it’s all over gaming now and starting to > become a standard. > > >> On Dec 26, 2017, at 7:37 AM, Justin Jones <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Making menus accessible isn't enough, but it is a start. My only >> concern is that this is EA and not a more reputable company. I figure >> that EA will charge extra for accessibility features. Have a look at >> the lootbox controversy-if you haven't already heard of it by now. >> >> On 12/26/17, Lenron <[email protected]> wrote: >>> What EA is doing is pretty awesome. Once we get away to read the game >>> menus accessibly. I think we will be just about there. I know there is >>> a long way to go though, because most other main stream Game >>> Developers really don't focus on accessibility. I mean there are some >>> games I have and will just play with out the accessibility and do ok >>> but it doesn't solved the problem of readable menus. I would love to >>> be able to enjoy titles like Skyrim, fall out 4 and a few others. >>> >>> On 12/19/17, john <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I don't particularly care if you take me seriously, only that you do your >>>> homework before spouting. >>>> Take a look through a few tech news sites if you'd prefer to read >>>> articles >>>> on the subject. >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Justin Jones" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:30 >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>> >>>> Yeah, a more powerful version of BGT would be very nice. I would love >>>> to see things like 3D sounds and database support. It's early, so >>>> those are the two things that I can think of off the top of my head. >>>> >>>> I wouldn't trust anything the FCC is putting out right now, given what >>>> they are trying to do to the Internet. Incidentally, it made my day >>>> when I found out that Ajit Pai was doxxed. >>>> >>>> If you want me to take you seriously on the subject of politics John, >>>> then don't provide links to an agency that is under the control of one >>>> of the most corrupt presidential administrations in U.S. history. >>>> >>>> On 12/19/17, john <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Here's a start for the political aspect. >>>>> I'm fully aware this is a waver notice. Its expired. Hunt down more info >>>>> if >>>>> >>>>> you really want to have an informed discussion, rather than making >>>>> blatantly >>>>> >>>>> untrue statements that are easily refuted by two minutes work. >>>>> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-extends-acs-waiver-video-game-software >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Justin Jones" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 18:42 >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>>>> Okay, it's a start. I'll concede that much; but we have a long way to >>>>> go and most of my points still stand. >>>>> >>>>> On the political front, i.e. enforcing/creating legislation for >>>>> accessibility-and not only games-we are completely screwed here in the >>>>> United States-unless we can elect a Democrat-controlled Congress. >>>>> That, however, is another topic for another time. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. Do not confuse a realistic appraisal of a situation with >>>>> bitterness; you only undermine your own credibility. >>>>> >>>>> On 12/18/17, Joshua Tubbs <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Well, hold on a minute. Not fully accessible. No talking menus yet. >>>>>> Making >>>>>> plays and the actual gameplay, with vision assists on, is pretty >>>>>> accessible. >>>>>> It’s also not fully accessible because there needs to be more things >>>>>> implemented for the passing game. The workaround that Karen, Ea Sport’s >>>>>> accessibility lead, came up with isn’t deficient enough, though it is >>>>>> for >>>>>> pretty much everyone else but me lol. >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Josh Kennedy <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> EA games has an accessibility department now. Madden nfl is fully >>>>>>> accessible on xBox within the past 3 or so months. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >>>>>>> Windows 10 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Justin Jones <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 16:37 >>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warning, wall of text to follow; apologies in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Amusing; I have a bridge to sell you guys. Your sentimentality does >>>>>>> not line up with the stark economic reality of game >>>>>>> development/publishing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Up until recently, I have been playing mainstream games for over >>>>>>> thirty years. I lost the rest of my eyesight a couple of years ago and >>>>>>> my old habits and preferences for gaming were, for obvious reasons, >>>>>>> barred to me. Over the literal decades of gaming I have done, I have >>>>>>> never seen one instance of a mainstream publisher/developer take an >>>>>>> interest in creating games with substantial accessibility features for >>>>>>> the blind. Not. One. Single. Instance. Any accessibility features, >>>>>>> i.e. hotkeys and the like, are only incidentally blind-friendly and >>>>>>> not put in by actual intent of the game designer to cater to us. I am >>>>>>> not blaming them for this, rather I am pointing out the hard facts of >>>>>>> life. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If we want to play mainstream games, it is up to us to adapt. In no >>>>>>> instance, ever, is a developer/publisher going to insert a feature for >>>>>>> their Triple A title just to satisfy one or two people's desire for >>>>>>> additional accessibility. With games, they are on tight development >>>>>>> schedules and only have so much time to devote to a single title >>>>>>> before they move on and start working on the next game. Harsh, but >>>>>>> this gets back to the ruthless economics of game development. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Speaking of the ruthlessness of gaming economics, mainstream >>>>>>> publishers are interested in how they can increase their profitability >>>>>>> and they are not going to do that by making their games accessible to >>>>>>> a very small minority of people. This is a fact; you do not have to >>>>>>> like it, but there it is. Electronic Arts, for instance, is more >>>>>>> concerned with how they can screw their existing gamer base over with >>>>>>> lootboxes and micro-transactions. You would have to show me hard >>>>>>> evidence that they have any interest in us as a community. In other >>>>>>> words, I am being that guy: links or it didn't happen (and that >>>>>>> includes my argument from the previous paragraph). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The same goes with any other mainstream publishing company whether it >>>>>>> be Activision-Blizzard or Sega; the market share just isn't there to >>>>>>> develop for blind gamers. Indi developers, on the other hand, might be >>>>>>> an avenue of approach, but they have all they can do just to stay >>>>>>> afloat. If it comes down to developing a sure-fire winner of a title >>>>>>> for sighted players or taking a chance on developing something for the >>>>>>> blind, nine times out of ten, they will do the former and not the >>>>>>> latter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another point I would like to raise is that inclusiveness is just now >>>>>>> becoming a thing in the mainstream gaming scene, i.e. recognition of >>>>>>> LBGTQ main characters or strong female protagonists that do not fall >>>>>>> back on male stereotypes. Yes, it has taken this long and the process >>>>>>> is in its infancy. If the mainstream gaming community ever decides to >>>>>>> take us seriously as gamers, it is going to be a very long time >>>>>>> (decades, if ever). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If we, as blind gamers, want the equivalent of good mainstream games, >>>>>>> then it is up to us to do it for ourselves-as with everything else >>>>>>> that we, as blind people, have had to accomplish over the years. >>>>>>> Therefore, what is the point in trying to provide accessibility >>>>>>> features to the sighted when they have zero interest in doing so? This >>>>>>> isn't about tit-for-tat, rather this is confronting reality and not >>>>>>> trying to construct a fantasy world in which the mainstream gaming >>>>>>> community take us seriously. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Again, if anyone has any links to hard evidence that shows a genuine >>>>>>> sea change in mainstream gaming community practices toward blind >>>>>>> inclusiveness, then feel free to post them here and I will be happy to >>>>>>> give them a look. Also, and more importantly, I will only take >>>>>>> attempts at accessibility seriously-from the mainstream gaming >>>>>>> developer community-when they start announcing attempts at making >>>>>>> games like Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft, Dawn of War III, Metroid >>>>>>> Prime IV, Assassin's Creed or any equivalent titles with blind players >>>>>>> in mind. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Again, sorry for the wall of text. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/18/17, Damien Sykes <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Shaun, >>>>>>>> Yeah. Much as I hate to admit it, I was diagnosed with autism >>>>>>>> myself, >>>>>>>> near >>>>>>>> the aspergers end. I say I hate to admit it, but only because people >>>>>>>> judge >>>>>>>> me harshly for it. I'm not ashamed of it, it's who I am. But I am >>>>>>>> ashamed of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> some of my childhood attitudes. Whether that was my autism, or >>>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> just full of hatred anger and bitterness, I don't know, and I don't >>>>>>>> particularly care to go back there neither. That was a very dark >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me. To be honest, I think I was possibly more angry with life than I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> with any particular person or group of people. I still struggle with >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> emotions even today, but on a very different level. >>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Shaun Everiss >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 8:25 PM >>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree damien. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was like this from 15-20 years then from 26-30, but I am ok now. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A lot of things did not pan out and I have accepted though I am >>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>> bitter about some of those things. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I however can't do anything about them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 19/12/2017 9:18 a.m., Damien Sykes wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Justin, >>>>>>>>> Your below message represents almost the exact bitter and >>>>>>>>> prejudiced >>>>>>>>> thoughts of a 14-year-old me. Sighted people probably have a good >>>>>>>>> thousand >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> games to every one of ours. So why should we give a damn? But no. >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to try and include everyone, otherwise we are not only stooping to >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> level, if indeed they are doing it maliciously, which most don't >>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> be. But we are also cutting off our nose to spite our face. Make a >>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>> known game, make it for the blind only, have a family game night, >>>>>>>>> fire >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> up and you'll see what I mean. You're totally isolating yourself >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> everyone else and that's not fair on you, or them. >>>>>>>>> Recently I've been looking into new languages so that I can start >>>>>>>>> messing >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> around seeing if I can make big grand audio games, but also to see >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can create some online games that I can play with my family. It's >>>>>>>>> lonely >>>>>>>>> when your family are playing without you, or when you're playing a >>>>>>>>> game >>>>>>>>> solo that is meant to be multiplayer. If anything has shown me how >>>>>>>>> important this kind of stuff is, it's the value of family. >>>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Jones >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:34 PM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am going to have to respectfully disagree; for an audio game, for >>>>>>>>> people with no visual acuity, visual elements are both a waste of >>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> and resources. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If I were, for example, to try and develop a role-playing game >>>>>>>>> along >>>>>>>>> the same lines as Baldur's Gate, production time would be increased >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> at least a factor of two. A visual interface is very different than >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> audio one-especially for role-playing games. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This might sound a little petty (and if it does, I could not care >>>>>>>>> less), but the mainstream gaming industry has made it very clear >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> accessibility and inclusiveness for blind players is not anything >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> a priority. Why should we, as blind gamers/game developers, make >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> sort of effort to include that group of gamers? Put differently, if >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> sighted person wants to play an audio game, there is nothing >>>>>>>>> stopping >>>>>>>>> them from doing so, but it is not our problem if they complain over >>>>>>>>> the lack of a visual interface/feedback. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is my chief complaint with A Hero's Call: Out of Sight Games >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> attempting to prostitute itself to a community that does not give a >>>>>>>>> damn about an indi developer trying to make a game for both blind >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sighted people. Unless Out of Sight Games has a hidden art >>>>>>>>> department >>>>>>>>> as a part of their team, no sighted person (other than the curious) >>>>>>>>> will purchase their game. Why would they? They have Skyrim, Diablo >>>>>>>>> III, Path of Exile, Fallout 4, and so on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I disagree. There are times where having visual feedback is >>>>>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>>>> Especially in a game that you’d want to put in schools. >>>>>>>>>> There should never be a reason not to include visual elements. >>>>>>>>>> Access >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> all works both ways. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Damien Sykes >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 11:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> I don’t know why, but I like the fact that there’s no visual >>>>>>>>>> element. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>> that a UI won’t make or break an audio game, but if there’s no UI >>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> have no choice but to go fully audio, and it really makes you >>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> what information needs to be conveyed. Almost like writing your >>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>> mini >>>>>>>>>> and/or virtual screen reader, I guess. I must say, it was a fun >>>>>>>>>> challenge >>>>>>>>>> conceptualising and writing the audio form. >>>>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Liam Erven >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:52 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My biggest issues are lack of cross-platform, lack of >>>>>>>>>> environmental >>>>>>>>>> effects, >>>>>>>>>> and no way to do any sort of visual UI. That’s been an issue in >>>>>>>>>> Brain >>>>>>>>>> Station unfortunately. >>>>>>>>>> This is the problem when you get too comfortable with a scripting >>>>>>>>>> language >>>>>>>>>> like what was stated earlier. You don’t want to learn anything >>>>>>>>>> else. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From: Damien Sykes >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:39 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Justin, >>>>>>>>>> Indeed there are workarounds for these issues, but they are >>>>>>>>>> trivial >>>>>>>>>> compared >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to some of the bigger limitations. No 3d. No audio effects >>>>>>>>>> (filtering, >>>>>>>>>> reverb etc). Not cross-platform. Can't really do anything with >>>>>>>>>> binary >>>>>>>>>> data >>>>>>>>>> unless you do all the calculations and conversions yourself. >>>>>>>>>> Tantrums >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> the garbage collector from time to time, which of course will >>>>>>>>>> reduce >>>>>>>>>> performance. No real way of totally resetting the state of >>>>>>>>>> execution. >>>>>>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>> course you can reset all the variables, but the call stack will >>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>> show a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> call to reset... >>>>>>>>>> The binary data and reset state aren't big showstoppers for me. >>>>>>>>>> Even >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> cross platform isn't a big deal for me. I only ever use Windows >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> main >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> work, only ever use Linux for server admin through SSH and I don't >>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>> myself getting a mac or phone anytime soon. But performance is >>>>>>>>>> definitely >>>>>>>>>> important in any product, and since I'm seeing more and more games >>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of 3d audio and environmental effects, if I made another game I'd >>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> able to use that. >>>>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>>>> Damien. >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Jones >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:11 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> One example of this sort of limitation is that BGT will only allow >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> the reading of string data types from a file and nothing else. For >>>>>>>>>> example, if you tell BGT to output a series of numbers into a text >>>>>>>>>> file, it does this just fine, but if you try to read those numbers >>>>>>>>>> back into a piece of code as integers, i.e. assigning the values >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> integer data type, BGT kicks back an error. Of course, there is a >>>>>>>>>> work-around for this, but you have to use the string conversion >>>>>>>>>> functions to convert a string data type to an integer data type. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> is an odd limitation, considering that the other programming >>>>>>>>>> languages >>>>>>>>>> I've worked with in the past do not have this problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Another example of a limitation for BGT is data validation. If you >>>>>>>>>> were to have the user input a number, there is no built-in >>>>>>>>>> functionality for the input box function to perform data >>>>>>>>>> validation. >>>>>>>>>> Again, there are work-arounds for this, but this ought to have >>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> something that is a part of the input box function. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I freely admit that I could be wrong concerning both of these >>>>>>>>>> examples. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> It’s still a scripting language by definition. It’s good for >>>>>>>>>>> games, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> much else. Also has several limitations which could be >>>>>>>>>>> problematic. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Josh Kennedy >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:36 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sam tupy’s elaborate survive the wild game was written entirely >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> bgt. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Jones >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 07:31 >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So long as you understand that BGT isn't a real programming >>>>>>>>>>> language, >>>>>>>>>>> as it falls under scripting. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's not a bad start though, as it can do plenty of cool things >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> also serves as an intro to game programming, but it is only an >>>>>>>>>>> intro. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/17/17, Josh Kennedy <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Try the free bgt toolkit. Free blind game makers toolkit. Just >>>>>>>>>>>> google >>>>>>>>>>>> search >>>>>>>>>>>> bgt blind game makers toolkit. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Marvin Hunkin via Groups.Io >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 20:23 >>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi. maybe this is too technical. But do you know of any blind >>>>>>>>>>>> developers >>>>>>>>>>>> developing an accessible game framework and also an accessible >>>>>>>>>>>> diagramming >>>>>>>>>>>> software. If so, let me know. And also what’s the steps to >>>>>>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>> accessible game say for windows. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>>> Ps: also for like mobile, ios, android, x box, etc. thanks. >>>>>>>>>>>> Ps: thinking of doing a diploma of interactive gaming from my >>>>>>>>>>>> school,and >>>>>>>>>>>> they have like a few subjects, 3d interactive gaming and >>>>>>>>>>>> designing >>>>>>>>>>>> 3d >>>>>>>>>>>> graphics, etc. any one done these type of courses. Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>>>>>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>>>>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>> [email protected] >>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lenron Brown >>> Cell: 985-271-2832 >>> Skype: ron.brown762 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >> [email protected] >> (254) 624-9155 >> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >> >> >> > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#118180): https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/message/118180 View All Messages In Topic (34): https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/topic/7625742 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/7625742/21656 New Topic: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/post Change Your Subscription: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/editsub/21656 Group Home: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers Contact Group Owner: [email protected] Terms of Service: https://groups.io/static/tos Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/leave/607459/1071380848/xyzzy -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
