Dale, the natural gas generator makes the most sense to me. You are quite correct, when we had the ice storm disaster in December obtaining gasoline *was* a real problem. There were only a few stations which had an emergency backup power source and, without electricity, you can not get gas out of the ground. (LOL) I am still astounded at the cost of running a generator. The numbers I have heard about range from $45 to $100 per day. Gad, at those prices I would have gone broke! Cy, the ancient Okie....
_____ From: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dale Leavens Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 12:58 AM To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] minimum temperature. Oh I don't know, the only reason I remember that temperature is that I well remember researching alternatives and the heat pump has a lot to recommend it but not up here unless coupled to a geothermal recovery system. We have natural gas heat here but that isn't much use if the power goes off. I have thought of a natural gas operated generator for back-up maybe about 10 kilowatts, either that or diesel with a really big storage tank. Seems to me that getting fuel for a generator could become problematic and keeping a big drum of gasoline around is expensive, hazardous and might well turn to varnish before used. With no electricity getting pumps to work to fill cans might also be a challenge. Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada HYPERLINK "mailto:DLeavens%40puc.net"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Selfridge To: HYPERLINK "mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 11:45 PM Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] minimum temperature. Dale, They must have really improved the heat pump since I had one. Mine began to fall off dramatically below 32F (0C). In fact, somewhere below 40F (5 or so C - LOL) it became questionable on how much heat the thing would really put out. I am glad we still have natural gas into our home as when the electricity went off due to the December ice storm our gas cook stove kept us from freezing to death. As it turns out we were without power for 11 days. Cy, the Ancient Okie... _____ From: HYPERLINK "mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com"[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com"[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dale Leavens Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:10 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] minimum temperature. Hi Scott, While heat pumps are very efficient heating and cooling devices their efficiency decreases as the temperature decreases down to about minus 10C I believe which is about 14F. You are getting pretty close to those limits. This means the unit will cycle more frequently but the fact that it does cycle off means that there is still unused capacity. When it is running continuously you know it is at or beyond it's capacity. You certainly can increase the temperature and I certainly would want to understanding that this is going to cost you more money. You can probably counter that by turning it further back at night but probably not much below 60F or the cost of raising the temperature in the morning will probably exceed the savings of allowing it to fall at night. Insulation in the ceiling is the first best place to put it but you might also want to weather-strip windows, doors and calk around the frames where there are any gaps. We have a product up here and I expect you do too, it is a thin film of plastic and double sided tape. You clean around the windows on the wall usually just beyond the frames on the inside and apply the tape then stick the sheet of plastic to the tape and pull it over the window so it is stuck down all around. Heat applied from a blow dryer causes the plastic to shrink creating an air-tight air space between the plastic and the window and if it includes the frame it will also help keep drafts from sneaking around the frame. You can remove it in the spring. The very best gas filled windows will give you an insulation value of about 3 maybe a little better if triple glazed but not much. The foam behind your siding is probably about R8 by comparison and 6 inches of fiberglass bat insulation in your ceiling is R20 assuming it is well and snugly installed just to give you some idea. If your windows are anything less than the best then the heat loss through them will be higher. Generally though the biggest losses are to drafts through small cracks around windows and doors, where the floor meets the walls and that sort of thing and of course around the foundation and of course around any penetrations like vents, electrical conduits and your heat pump lines. Thanks, I hope this is helpful.. Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada HYPERLINK "mailto:DLeavens%-40puc.net"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Howell To: HYPERLINK "mailto:blindhandym-an%40yahoogroups-.com"[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] minimum temperature. This brings up a good point and a question. I decided to set the thermostat to 65 during the day and 64 while we sleep. Now I am sure this house could use a bit mroe insulation, but when I had it resided, they put in 3/4 inch foam insulation prior to putting the new siding on. My house overhangs the foundation by about two feet so I stuffed insulation into the void cause I found and I'm not kiding, but ice on the inside of the house one Winter between the baseboard and the floor. I figured that wasn't a good thing so stuffing insulation in there did help with that. I've got a fair bit of insulation in the attic, but can't recall how much I want to say at least six inches might be more or less, I'd have to measure. Now with that said, with the temps around 20 to 30 degreese and lower over the last week or two, I notice the damned heatpump cycles on and off a lot more and no doub tcosting me more money. I wonder if it makes more sense to raise the temp so it will run longer in the hopes that maybe it'll cycle less or leave as is and just deal with the fact I'm stuck with the damned heatpump and cope as best I can? I ca't get anything else in here such as oil etc. cause the way the house is built, it would require a lot of money to retrofit the place to accept a chimney. I don't think my wife would stand for me lowering the temperature to 60 degreese and having to put her coat on. She complains it cold sometimes, but so far she's handling it pretty well. Our house is about 1,600 square feet. 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