Ok thanks. It looks like the CSSWG discussed the issue and there still needs to be more discussion before a resolution is achieved, so we'll wait for that.
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:45 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> wrote: > Hey Chris, > > I’ve filed an issue on the csswg-drafts repo > <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793> asking for the wording > to be adjusted in the spec. In the original discussion surrounding this > media query, the intent was for this to be reflective of the display device > and not an overall representation of the user agent's capabilities. I did > some research into Safari's implementation > <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/blob/e1adc392ff841dee89aab69af21e3c429e4d5c88/Source/WebCore/css/MediaQueryEvaluator.cpp#L453> > of this query, and while they similarly implement dynamic-range: high > with respect to the display device, their treatment of dynamic-range: > standard isn't in line with the spec (it always returns true, even on HDR > displays). After some discussion with +chcunningham, we think this may be > the correct path forward for Chrome as well as sites are already using this > query on Safari, and it makes sense from a backwards compatibility > standpoint (how should dynamic-range: high react if an ultra-high enum is > ever added?). I'm still waiting to get feedback on the Github issue I filed > at the moment. > > Thanks, > Will > > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 12:30 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions, so far >> in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? Thanks. >> >> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando Serboncini >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> [coming from the other thread... :) ] >>>>> >>>>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning dynamic-range: >>>>> high right now would be useful. >>>>> >>>>> The spec could use some clarification: >>>>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different >>>>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ... >>>>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both with/without >>>>> alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences there, but I may be >>>>> wrong here). >>>>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness should >>>>> match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an expert, but I >>>>> know those exist. >>>>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but I'd ask >>>>> for a rationale here. >>>>> >>>>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media query, >>>>> but the risk here would be to release a semantic that guarantees very >>>>> little, and therefore is not useful in the long run. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an implementation >>>>>> should report (dynamic-range: standard) and (video-dynamic-range: >>>>>> high). It would be great to see the spec clarified to make it >>>>>> clearer what UA support is expected for each, though. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the >>>>>>> discussion here): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The spec <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> requires >>>>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device fulfill >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be high >>>>>>>> dynamic-range. Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut colors in >>>>>>>> CSS, >>>>>>>> HTML, or Canvas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based on this >>>> thread >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>) >>>> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas. >>>> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level 4 >>>> support? Or something else? >>>> >>> >>> That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for canvas >>> (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively about it) but I >>> don't think we do in HTML or CSS. (I also should have included images in >>> my list, though I think if we have support with canvas then we probably do >>> for images as well.).) >>> >>> >>>> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut (but >>>> rather about color depth <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), >>>> although it may be possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate >>>> 1:1. Can you clarify if that's what you meant? >>>> >>> >>> I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's requirements >>> rather than just using the term "wide-gamut". You're correct that it's not >>> 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation is unlikely to meet >>> the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast ratio without >>> supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut. >>> >>> (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in the spec, >>> perhaps not for canvas or images as well.) >>> >>> -David >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range: high) is >>>>>>>> true based only on the device, which is what it looks to me like the >>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0> >>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as to what >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the >>>>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my >>>>>>>> understanding of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome probably >>>>>>>> shouldn't say that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it supports >>>>>>>> wide-gamut colors in at least some and maybe all of those contexts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification, since >>>>>>> we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on the web the >>>>>>> intent >>>>>>> isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We do already >>>>>>> support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> element, so having >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> queries exist to let developers detect display capabilities is already >>>>>>> useful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in the >>>>>>>>> devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. I've created >>>>>>>>> pull >>>>>>>>> requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools frontend to >>>>>>>>> enable >>>>>>>>> this. https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613 >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias Bynens >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Contact emailscas...@chromium.org, chcunning...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>>>> videostack-...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Specificationhttps://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect the >>>>>>>>>>> current display device’s support for HDR. This feature adds two new >>>>>>>>>>> CSS >>>>>>>>>>> media queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', both of >>>>>>>>>>> which may >>>>>>>>>>> be one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these queries >>>>>>>>>>> according >>>>>>>>>>> to the capabilities of the display device the browser window is >>>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules accordingly or >>>>>>>>>>> respond in >>>>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web developers >>>>>>>>>>> need ways to enable HDR content on their web pages without >>>>>>>>>>> compromising the >>>>>>>>>>> experience for users of non-HDR displays, or mixed-HDR multi-display >>>>>>>>>>> setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' concept for toggling >>>>>>>>>>> rules >>>>>>>>>>> based on display device characteristics, and this feature extends >>>>>>>>>>> that set >>>>>>>>>>> of queries to enable detecting HDR support on the current display >>>>>>>>>>> device. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to CSS Media >>>>>>>>>>> Queries, already adopted by CSS WG. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` MQ, as >>>>>>>> it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG. >>>>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was the >>>>>>>> concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other >>>>>>>> `video-*` >>>>>>>> MQs that are already shipped? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/) >>>>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet supported >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935) >>>>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and elaborate >>>>>>>>>> on this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to ensure DevTools >>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>> basic editing of this new media query. It looks like this works out >>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>> box in Canary. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4jQTkmPvDLBM_t_0S%3D6k70UVdcszQ01hQELmE%3Dfp81JPA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4jQTkmPvDLBM_t_0S%3D6k70UVdcszQ01hQELmE%3Dfp81JPA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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