Friendly ping on Yoav's suggestion. Did y'all file a TAG review request?

-mike


On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 11:47 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:

> Since we're talking about adding a full new class of MQs, that seems
> worthy of a TAG discussion.
>
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 1:38:13 AM UTC+1 Will Cassella wrote:
>
>> Sorry for missing that! There's a section in the spec for 'video-*' MQ's
>> <https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#video-prefixed-features>, and
>> while this is the first to be implemented in Chrome there are others
>> detailed there (most notably video-color-gamut). The 'video-*' MQ
>> concept has not been discussed with TAG, but it was discussed at great
>> length between the media and CSS WGs. You can see the start of that
>> discussion in the media WG here
>> <https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/135>, and its jump to the
>> CSS WG here <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471>. In both
>> places we had representation from different user agents and domain experts.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the update!
>>>
>>> Repeating my question from above, that probably got lost along the way:
>>> Was the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other
>>> `video-*` MQs that are already shipped?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 9:33 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's been movement on the Github issue
>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793#issuecomment-973647057> 
>>>> regarding
>>>> the spec, and the consensus is that the way Safari has done things (having 
>>>> dynamic-range:
>>>> standard always return true, and dynamic-range: high be evaluated
>>>> against the capabilities of the display) is what we should be doing, and
>>>> the wording of the spec should be adjusted as well. I've updated our
>>>> implementation to reflect that.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ok thanks. It looks like the CSSWG discussed the issue and there still
>>>>> needs to be more discussion before a resolution is achieved, so we'll wait
>>>>> for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:45 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve filed an issue on the csswg-drafts repo
>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793> asking for the
>>>>>> wording to be adjusted in the spec. In the original discussion 
>>>>>> surrounding
>>>>>> this media query, the intent was for this to be reflective of the display
>>>>>> device and not an overall representation of the user agent's 
>>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>>> I did some research into Safari's implementation
>>>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/blob/e1adc392ff841dee89aab69af21e3c429e4d5c88/Source/WebCore/css/MediaQueryEvaluator.cpp#L453>
>>>>>> of this query, and while they similarly implement dynamic-range: high
>>>>>> with respect to the display device, their treatment of dynamic-range:
>>>>>> standard isn't in line with the spec (it always returns true, even
>>>>>> on HDR displays). After some discussion with +chcunningham, we think this
>>>>>> may be the correct path forward for Chrome as well as sites are already
>>>>>> using this query on Safari, and it makes sense from a backwards
>>>>>> compatibility standpoint (how should dynamic-range: high react if an
>>>>>> ultra-high enum is ever added?). I'm still waiting to get feedback
>>>>>> on the Github issue I filed at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 12:30 PM Chris Harrelson <
>>>>>> chris...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions, so
>>>>>>> far in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando
>>>>>>>>> Serboncini wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [coming from the other thread... :) ]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>>> high right now would be useful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The spec could use some clarification:
>>>>>>>>>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different
>>>>>>>>>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ...
>>>>>>>>>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both
>>>>>>>>>> with/without alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences 
>>>>>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>>>> but I may be wrong here).
>>>>>>>>>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness
>>>>>>>>>> should match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an 
>>>>>>>>>> expert,
>>>>>>>>>> but I know those exist.
>>>>>>>>>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but
>>>>>>>>>> I'd ask for a rationale here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media
>>>>>>>>>> query, but the risk here would be to release a semantic that 
>>>>>>>>>> guarantees
>>>>>>>>>> very little, and therefore is not useful in the long run.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an
>>>>>>>>>>> implementation should report (dynamic-range: standard) and 
>>>>>>>>>>> (video-dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>>>> high).  It would be great to see the spec clarified to make it
>>>>>>>>>>> clearer what UA support is expected for each, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella <
>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion here):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The spec <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> requires
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fulfill all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range.  Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut colors 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in CSS,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTML, or Canvas
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based on
>>>>>>>>> this thread
>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>)
>>>>>>>>> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas.
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level 4
>>>>>>>>> support? Or something else?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for
>>>>>>>> canvas (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively 
>>>>>>>> about it)
>>>>>>>> but I don't think we do in HTML or CSS.  (I also should have included
>>>>>>>> images in my list, though I think if we have support with canvas then 
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> probably do for images as well.).)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut
>>>>>>>>> (but rather about color depth
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), although it may
>>>>>>>>> be possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate 1:1. Can 
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> clarify if that's what you meant?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's
>>>>>>>> requirements rather than just using the term "wide-gamut".  You're 
>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>> that it's not 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation is
>>>>>>>> unlikely to meet the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast 
>>>>>>>> ratio
>>>>>>>> without supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in the
>>>>>>>> spec, perhaps not for canvas or images as well.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> high) is true based only on the device, which is what it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks to me like the current code
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  does.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't say that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports wide-gamut colors in at least some and maybe all of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification,
>>>>>>>>>>>> since we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> web the
>>>>>>>>>>>> intent isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We
>>>>>>>>>>>> do already support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> element, so
>>>>>>>>>>>> having these queries exist to let developers detect display 
>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities is
>>>>>>>>>>>> already useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss <
>>>>>>>>>>>> yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. I've 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pull requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frontend to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enable this. https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynens wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emailscas...@chromium.org,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chcunning...@chromium.org, videostack-...@chromium.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Explainer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current display device’s support for HDR. This feature adds 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two new CSS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', both 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of which may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> queries according
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the capabilities of the display device the browser window 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules accordingly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or respond in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Motivation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developers need ways to enable HDR content on their web pages 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compromising the experience for users of non-HDR displays, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mixed-HDR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multi-display setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concept for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toggling rules based on display device characteristics, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this feature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extends that set of queries to enable detecting HDR support on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to CSS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Media Queries, already adopted by CSS WG.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` MQ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> `video-*`
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MQs that are already shipped?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet supported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elaborate on this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensure DevTools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports basic editing of this new media query. It looks like 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the box in Canary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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