Since we're talking about adding a full new class of MQs, that seems worthy of a TAG discussion.
On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 1:38:13 AM UTC+1 Will Cassella wrote: > Sorry for missing that! There's a section in the spec for 'video-*' MQ's > <https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#video-prefixed-features>, and > while this is the first to be implemented in Chrome there are others > detailed there (most notably video-color-gamut). The 'video-*' MQ concept > has not been discussed with TAG, but it was discussed at great length > between the media and CSS WGs. You can see the start of that discussion > in the media WG here > <https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/135>, and its jump to the > CSS WG here <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471>. In both > places we had representation from different user agents and domain experts. > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> Thanks for the update! >> >> Repeating my question from above, that probably got lost along the way: >> Was the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other >> `video-*` MQs that are already shipped? >> >> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 9:33 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> There's been movement on the Github issue >>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793#issuecomment-973647057> >>> regarding >>> the spec, and the consensus is that the way Safari has done things (having >>> dynamic-range: >>> standard always return true, and dynamic-range: high be evaluated >>> against the capabilities of the display) is what we should be doing, and >>> the wording of the spec should be adjusted as well. I've updated our >>> implementation to reflect that. >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ok thanks. It looks like the CSSWG discussed the issue and there still >>>> needs to be more discussion before a resolution is achieved, so we'll wait >>>> for that. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:45 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey Chris, >>>>> >>>>> I’ve filed an issue on the csswg-drafts repo >>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793> asking for the >>>>> wording to be adjusted in the spec. In the original discussion >>>>> surrounding >>>>> this media query, the intent was for this to be reflective of the display >>>>> device and not an overall representation of the user agent's >>>>> capabilities. >>>>> I did some research into Safari's implementation >>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/blob/e1adc392ff841dee89aab69af21e3c429e4d5c88/Source/WebCore/css/MediaQueryEvaluator.cpp#L453> >>>>> >>>>> of this query, and while they similarly implement dynamic-range: high >>>>> with respect to the display device, their treatment of dynamic-range: >>>>> standard isn't in line with the spec (it always returns true, even on >>>>> HDR displays). After some discussion with +chcunningham, we think this >>>>> may >>>>> be the correct path forward for Chrome as well as sites are already using >>>>> this query on Safari, and it makes sense from a backwards compatibility >>>>> standpoint (how should dynamic-range: high react if an ultra-high >>>>> enum is ever added?). I'm still waiting to get feedback on the Github >>>>> issue >>>>> I filed at the moment. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Will >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 12:30 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions, so >>>>>> far in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando >>>>>>>> Serboncini wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [coming from the other thread... :) ] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>> high right now would be useful. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The spec could use some clarification: >>>>>>>>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different >>>>>>>>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ... >>>>>>>>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both >>>>>>>>> with/without alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences >>>>>>>>> there, >>>>>>>>> but I may be wrong here). >>>>>>>>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness >>>>>>>>> should match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an >>>>>>>>> expert, >>>>>>>>> but I know those exist. >>>>>>>>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but I'd >>>>>>>>> ask for a rationale here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media >>>>>>>>> query, but the risk here would be to release a semantic that >>>>>>>>> guarantees >>>>>>>>> very little, and therefore is not useful in the long run. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an implementation >>>>>>>>>> should report (dynamic-range: standard) and (video-dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>>> high). It would be great to see the spec clarified to make it >>>>>>>>>> clearer what UA support is expected for each, though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the >>>>>>>>>>> discussion here): >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The spec <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> >>>>>>>>>>> requires >>>>>>>>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device >>>>>>>>>>>> fulfill all >>>>>>>>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be >>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range. Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut colors >>>>>>>>>>>> in CSS, >>>>>>>>>>>> HTML, or Canvas >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based on >>>>>>>> this thread >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas. >>>>>>>> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level 4 >>>>>>>> support? Or something else? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for >>>>>>> canvas (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively about >>>>>>> it) >>>>>>> but I don't think we do in HTML or CSS. (I also should have included >>>>>>> images in my list, though I think if we have support with canvas then >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> probably do for images as well.).) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut >>>>>>>> (but rather about color depth >>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), although it may be >>>>>>>> possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate 1:1. Can you >>>>>>>> clarify if that's what you meant? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's >>>>>>> requirements rather than just using the term "wide-gamut". You're >>>>>>> correct >>>>>>> that it's not 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation is >>>>>>> unlikely to meet the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast >>>>>>> ratio >>>>>>> without supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in the >>>>>>> spec, perhaps not for canvas or images as well.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>>>>> high) is true based only on the device, which is what it looks >>>>>>>>>>>> to me like the current code >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0> >>>>>>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as to >>>>>>>>>>>> what it >>>>>>>>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the >>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my >>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome >>>>>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't say that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it >>>>>>>>>>>> supports wide-gamut colors in at least some and maybe all of those >>>>>>>>>>>> contexts. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification, >>>>>>>>>>> since we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on the >>>>>>>>>>> web the >>>>>>>>>>> intent isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We do >>>>>>>>>>> already support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> element, >>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>> having these queries exist to let developers detect display >>>>>>>>>>> capabilities is >>>>>>>>>>> already useful. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss < >>>>>>>>>>> yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. I've >>>>>>>>>>>>> created >>>>>>>>>>>>> pull requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools >>>>>>>>>>>>> frontend to >>>>>>>>>>>>> enable this. https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613 >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emailscas...@chromium.org, chcunning...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> , videostack-...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current display device’s support for HDR. This feature adds two >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of which may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> queries according >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the capabilities of the display device the browser window is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules accordingly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or respond in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web developers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need ways to enable HDR content on their web pages without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compromising the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience for users of non-HDR displays, or mixed-HDR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multi-display >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' concept for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toggling rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on display device characteristics, and this feature >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extends that set >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of queries to enable detecting HDR support on the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display device. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Media Queries, already adopted by CSS WG. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` MQ, >>>>>>>>>>>> as it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG. >>>>>>>>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was the >>>>>>>>>>>> concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other >>>>>>>>>>>> `video-*` >>>>>>>>>>>> MQs that are already shipped? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet supported >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> elaborate on this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to ensure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DevTools >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports basic editing of this new media query. It looks like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this works >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the box in Canary. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4jQTkmPvDLBM_t_0S%3D6k70UVdcszQ01hQELmE%3Dfp81JPA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4jQTkmPvDLBM_t_0S%3D6k70UVdcszQ01hQELmE%3Dfp81JPA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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