HI Michal, We don't yet have a date for removing WebSQL everywhere. We need to finish looking for more examples of current nontrivial usage. The best I can say is, in 2023, but not super early in 2023. You'll have plenty of notice!
Ben On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 4:36 PM Michal Šimonfy <michal.simo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ben, thank you for your answer! > > I figured that the plan is to phase out support entirely, I was just > wondering whether deprecating and removing WebSQL "in non-secure contexts" > is going to affect chrome extensions (I assume it is not). Is there a > specific timeline for removing WebSQL from the extensions and "secure > contexts"? > > I'm using WebSQL for a legacy reasons, I created my extension when WebSQL > was a new thing in Chrome and I liked the fact that I was able to use a > relational database. I was hesitant to stop using it because it was working > well for my use case and seemed to be reliable for all these years. I'll > have to explore all the available options and SQLite-over-Wasm looks great, > although I might just try to migrate to chrome.storage or IndexedDB. > > Best, > Michal > On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 5:36:31 PM UTC+1 mo...@google.com > wrote: > >> Our plan is to remove support entirely. >> >> It's good to hear from developers who have been using Web SQL - since the >> vast majority of uses we've found on the web emanate from standard >> libraries using it for browser sniffing or as a backup for basic key-value >> storage. If you're using it, and migration to SQLite-over-Wasm looks hard >> for you, I'd like to hear more about your use case. It's always difficult >> when a feature you rely on gets removed - but we want to make this as easy >> on everyone as possible. >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 9:26 AM Michal Šimonfy <michal....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello there! >>> >>> will WebSQL continue to be available in Chrome extensions (through the >>> chrome-extension:// scheme)? >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> All the best, >>> Michal >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 8:59:39 PM UTC+1 mo...@google.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Carl, >>>> >>>> I'm sorry we can't keep Web SQL going any further in its present form. >>>> As you know, it's been deprecated for years and only Chromium still >>>> supports it. It sees little use; almost any site that wants sophisticated >>>> storage wants it to work on all browsers, and so people build things on top >>>> of indexedDB. Despite the relatively small usage, it takes us time to keep >>>> up with updates, and security problems demand our attention rather >>>> frequently. We don't have enough engineers to merit keeping it going. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, we're quite excited about the new SQLite-over-Wasm, >>>> and some developers of other databases have told us they're interested in >>>> following this example. After years in which browser vendors tried to >>>> create sophisticated storage solutions, often without success, the >>>> possibility that databases that are available on other platforms might >>>> become available on the web, created and supported by the developer >>>> community, is quite exciting. >>>> >>>> Sorry that doesn't help with your HTML-file application :-/ If you're >>>> curious, it is possible to embed Wasm in an HTML page: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/52582367/a-single-file-webassembly-html-demo >>>> - https://gist.github.com/dio/ae79cf546e808a9bc46515bf9400ad5d >>>> >>>> Of course, this isn't as simple or as small as simply using Web SQL, >>>> but it miiiiiight work? >>>> >>>> All best, >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 11:06 AM Carl Turechek <carltu...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't think that the increased security will have an effect on my >>>>> app, but the removal all together is my concern. Sorry if I haven't been >>>>> clear enough. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC-5 mo...@google.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes. Carl, does your app depend on Web SQL, webkitStorageInfo, or >>>>>> something else? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 6:55 PM Carl Turechek <carltu...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You'll break an app I developed to be passed around as a single html >>>>>>> file. Hope you'll provide us plebs some guidance on finding a >>>>>>> replacement >>>>>>> solution. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:22:34 PM UTC-5 mo...@google.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've done a more thorough search for examples of webkitStorageInfo >>>>>>>> and of WebSQL in insecure contexts on the web. Among the top 10K >>>>>>>> sites, the >>>>>>>> only usage I found was from standard libraries - and, in these cases, >>>>>>>> removal wouldn't cause an error or affect any functionality. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No one in Enterprise at Google, Microsoft, or Salesforce has >>>>>>>> uncovered usage among their partners either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:51 AM 'Thomas Steiner' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The developer-facing documentation is being updated in >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/GoogleChrome/developer.chrome.com/pull/4299. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 12:26 AM Ayu Ishii <ay...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We've done some extra communications with enterprise partners and >>>>>>>>>> have come up with a new target milestone. >>>>>>>>>> The new target milestone for this removal is M110, with >>>>>>>>>> enterprise policy available for 2 milestones (M110-111). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>> Ayu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 7:49:00 PM UTC-7 Ayu Ishii wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you all for the approvals! >>>>>>>>>>> And thank you miketaylr@ for the HTTPArchive analysis! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 1:12:55 PM UTC-7 Mike Taylor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/22 3:52 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> LGTM3 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 8:58 PM Mike Taylor < >>>>>>>>>>>> mike...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/22 1:34 PM, Chris Harrelson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 8:26 PM Ayu Ishii <ay...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mike! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the current usage measurements we see, we hadn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered any enterprise policy for opt-out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But certainly can follow the process to do so if you feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there may be risk of undercounting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deprecation of WebSQL in third-party contexts added a policy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that lasted 3 milestones after deprecation before full removal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> example. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although the usages were quite different from that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation, we can follow the same process if this sounds >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this plan sounds good. LGTM1 once you have an >>>>>>>>>>>>> enterprise opt-out in place that will remain for 3 milestones. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also please >>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to communicate this change in the enterprise notes and >>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> communication channels. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of notes I took last Friday and forgot to post: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I dumped the list of sites from HTTPArchive (query below) and >>>>>>>>>>>>> after de-duping them, ended up with 835 sites. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I then ran a script which naively looks at response codes, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> got the following results: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2XX count: 685/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3XX to HTTP endpoint count: 74/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4XX count: 3/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5XX count: 2/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, from this dataset, roughly 9% of those redirect to an HTTP >>>>>>>>>>>>> endpoint. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This should say HTTPS, not HTTP. I am bad at typing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I think reducing risk of breakage for enterprise >>>>>>>>>>>>> environments is a useful and friendly thing to do. LGTM2 w/ that >>>>>>>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SELECT >>>>>>>>>>>>> rank, >>>>>>>>>>>>> url, >>>>>>>>>>>>> FROM >>>>>>>>>>>>> `httparchive.blink_features.features` >>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE feature = 'OpenWebDatabaseInsecureContext' >>>>>>>>>>>>> ORDER BY rank ASC >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Ayu >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:57:01 PM UTC-7 Mike West wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy to see this moving forward, thanks for pushing it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, this seems like the kind of thing that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely-enough to impact enterprise that we should include a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opt-out to give ourselves some wiggle room if it turns out that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undercounting usage. Have y'all already put something like that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> together? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 2:18 AM Ayu Ishii < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ay...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Contact emails *ay...@chromium.org, jsb...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ajayra...@google.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Specification *https://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Summary *We intend to deprecate and remove usage of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL in non-secure contexts. Deprecation is targeted for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M105 and removal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is targeted for M107. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Blink component *Blink>Storage>WebSQL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EStorage%3EWebSQL> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Motivation *The Web SQL Database standard was first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposed in April 2009 and abandoned in November 2010. Gecko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implemented this feature and WebKit deprecated this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature in 2019 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/commit/761bce943c0696a6bb93116eb0576ed07dbfdc65>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The W3C encouraged those needing web databases to adopt Web >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Storage <https://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/> or Indexed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Database <https://www.w3.org/TR/IndexedDB/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL has been deprecated and removed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/TM6YDx1Hh08> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for third-party contexts in M97. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We hope to entirely deprecate and remove WebSQL at some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future point when usage is low enough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *TAG review *N/A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based on usage measurements >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4073> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled out in M97, 0.005% of page loads use WebSQL in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-secure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context. Less than 0.01% of top sites have adopted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out of the 20 top sites listed for the month of April 2022, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 of the sites use a feature detection library Modernizr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.5 <https://modernizr.com/news/modernizr-15>, on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version released in 2010. This would create a test database to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature availability. I was unable to reproduce the creation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL databases outside of the one created by Modernizr on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these sites. 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sites that seem to use an outdated private mode detection >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> script <https://stackoverflow.com/q/48169810> which was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended for older versions of iOS. All the scripts I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found checked if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> window.openDatabase existed before usage, likely due to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Gecko and WebKit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Never implemented >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Deprecation shipped in iOS 13 and Safari 13 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/277564/webkit> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: No signals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Debuggability *N/A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not fully, one test >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/web_tests/external/wpt/clear-site-data/support/test_utils.sub.js;l=136> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checks the availability of the feature. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Tracking bug *https://crbug.com/1212492 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to related intents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Deprecate and Remove: WebSQL in third-party >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/TM6YDx1Hh08> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5175124599767040 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/bc5f407d-e6fe-4743-ae46-84541d271a92n%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/bc5f407d-e6fe-4743-ae46-84541d271a92n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/aa706101-184b-4a25-a446-6643a96e062fn%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/aa706101-184b-4a25-a446-6643a96e062fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw9xqv76X-fAQjvb4iiT%2Bx-GxUffO0H16AYMWDk91ma-hw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw9xqv76X-fAQjvb4iiT%2Bx-GxUffO0H16AYMWDk91ma-hw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/5a30e8f7-49cf-ab6e-9e36-d63fb0f139fa%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/5a30e8f7-49cf-ab6e-9e36-d63fb0f139fa%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/049f32e7-9d79-4cfc-8f91-5f7c9649bd3bn%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/049f32e7-9d79-4cfc-8f91-5f7c9649bd3bn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Thomas Steiner, PhD—Developer Relations Engineer ( >>>>>>>>> https://blog.tomayac.com, https://twitter.com/tomayac) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Google Germany GmbH, ABC-Str. 19, 20354 Hamburg, Germany >>>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Paul Manicle, Liana Sebastian >>>>>>>>> Registergericht und -nummer: Hamburg, HRB 86891 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE ----- >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2.3.4 (GNU/Linux) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> iFy0uwAntT0bE3xtRa5AfeCheCkthAtTh3reSabiGbl0ck0fjumBl3DCharaCTersAttH3b0ttom. >>>>>>>>> hTtPs://xKcd.cOm/1181/ >>>>>>>>> ----- END PGP SIGNATURE ----- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CALgRrLmvGVvzbS%3D0F9PYEBfGEvm1SX%3DfyugwxMrMWOb2MCLfaA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CALgRrLmvGVvzbS%3D0F9PYEBfGEvm1SX%3DfyugwxMrMWOb2MCLfaA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAA6%2Bj4tO1%3Dtx1wZwyZHQRAyUJ-a%2BccL12LJY5_cyi56ZxW-pTQ%40mail.gmail.com.
