Going to all that trouble for a "replacement" that's not any better .. ok. Good luck finding anyone who'd actually use it.
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:04:23 AM UTC-5 Carl Turechek wrote: > Are you sure that callback hell can't be avoided using js promises? If > that is a major reason then hopefully you're right. I think it should > remain in the desktop browsers at least, or as an option still. Thanks for > the heads up on turning off updates lol > On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 7:02:53 PM UTC-5 mo...@google.com wrote: > >> HI Michal, >> >> We don't yet have a date for removing WebSQL everywhere. We need to >> finish looking for more examples of current nontrivial usage. The best I >> can say is, in 2023, but not super early in 2023. You'll have plenty of >> notice! >> >> Ben >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 4:36 PM Michal Šimonfy <michal....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Ben, thank you for your answer! >>> >>> I figured that the plan is to phase out support entirely, I was just >>> wondering whether deprecating and removing WebSQL "in non-secure contexts" >>> is going to affect chrome extensions (I assume it is not). Is there a >>> specific timeline for removing WebSQL from the extensions and "secure >>> contexts"? >>> >>> I'm using WebSQL for a legacy reasons, I created my extension when >>> WebSQL was a new thing in Chrome and I liked the fact that I was able to >>> use a relational database. I was hesitant to stop using it because it was >>> working well for my use case and seemed to be reliable for all these years. >>> I'll have to explore all the available options and SQLite-over-Wasm looks >>> great, although I might just try to migrate to chrome.storage or IndexedDB. >>> >>> Best, >>> Michal >>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 5:36:31 PM UTC+1 mo...@google.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Our plan is to remove support entirely. >>>> >>>> It's good to hear from developers who have been using Web SQL - since >>>> the vast majority of uses we've found on the web emanate from standard >>>> libraries using it for browser sniffing or as a backup for basic key-value >>>> storage. If you're using it, and migration to SQLite-over-Wasm looks hard >>>> for you, I'd like to hear more about your use case. It's always difficult >>>> when a feature you rely on gets removed - but we want to make this as easy >>>> on everyone as possible. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 9:26 AM Michal Šimonfy <michal....@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello there! >>>>> >>>>> will WebSQL continue to be available in Chrome extensions (through the >>>>> chrome-extension:// scheme)? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Michal >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 8:59:39 PM UTC+1 mo...@google.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Carl, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm sorry we can't keep Web SQL going any further in its present >>>>>> form. As you know, it's been deprecated for years and only Chromium >>>>>> still >>>>>> supports it. It sees little use; almost any site that wants >>>>>> sophisticated >>>>>> storage wants it to work on all browsers, and so people build things on >>>>>> top >>>>>> of indexedDB. Despite the relatively small usage, it takes us time to >>>>>> keep >>>>>> up with updates, and security problems demand our attention rather >>>>>> frequently. We don't have enough engineers to merit keeping it going. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the other hand, we're quite excited about the new >>>>>> SQLite-over-Wasm, and some developers of other databases have told us >>>>>> they're interested in following this example. After years in which >>>>>> browser >>>>>> vendors tried to create sophisticated storage solutions, often without >>>>>> success, the possibility that databases that are available on other >>>>>> platforms might become available on the web, created and supported by >>>>>> the >>>>>> developer community, is quite exciting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry that doesn't help with your HTML-file application :-/ If you're >>>>>> curious, it is possible to embed Wasm in an HTML page: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/52582367/a-single-file-webassembly-html-demo >>>>>> - https://gist.github.com/dio/ae79cf546e808a9bc46515bf9400ad5d >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, this isn't as simple or as small as simply using Web SQL, >>>>>> but it miiiiiight work? >>>>>> >>>>>> All best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 11:06 AM Carl Turechek <carltu...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think that the increased security will have an effect on my >>>>>>> app, but the removal all together is my concern. Sorry if I haven't >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> clear enough. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC-5 mo...@google.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes. Carl, does your app depend on Web SQL, webkitStorageInfo, or >>>>>>>> something else? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 6:55 PM Carl Turechek <carltu...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You'll break an app I developed to be passed around as a single >>>>>>>>> html file. Hope you'll provide us plebs some guidance on finding a >>>>>>>>> replacement solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:22:34 PM UTC-5 >>>>>>>>> mo...@google.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've done a more thorough search for examples of >>>>>>>>>> webkitStorageInfo and of WebSQL in insecure contexts on the web. >>>>>>>>>> Among the >>>>>>>>>> top 10K sites, the only usage I found was from standard libraries - >>>>>>>>>> and, in >>>>>>>>>> these cases, removal wouldn't cause an error or affect any >>>>>>>>>> functionality. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No one in Enterprise at Google, Microsoft, or Salesforce has >>>>>>>>>> uncovered usage among their partners either. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:51 AM 'Thomas Steiner' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The developer-facing documentation is being updated in >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/GoogleChrome/developer.chrome.com/pull/4299. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 12:26 AM Ayu Ishii <ay...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We've done some extra communications with enterprise partners >>>>>>>>>>>> and have come up with a new target milestone. >>>>>>>>>>>> The new target milestone for this removal is M110, with >>>>>>>>>>>> enterprise policy available for 2 milestones (M110-111). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> Ayu >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 7:49:00 PM UTC-7 Ayu Ishii wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you all for the approvals! >>>>>>>>>>>>> And thank you miketaylr@ for the HTTPArchive analysis! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 1:12:55 PM UTC-7 Mike Taylor >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/22 3:52 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LGTM3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 8:58 PM Mike Taylor < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/22 1:34 PM, Chris Harrelson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 8:26 PM Ayu Ishii < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ay...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mike! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the current usage measurements we see, we hadn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered any enterprise policy for opt-out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But certainly can follow the process to do so if you feel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there may be risk of undercounting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deprecation of WebSQL in third-party contexts added a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policy that lasted 3 milestones after deprecation before full >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removal as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although the usages were quite different from that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation, we can follow the same process if this sounds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this plan sounds good. LGTM1 once you have an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enterprise opt-out in place that will remain for 3 milestones. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to communicate this change in the enterprise notes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communication channels. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of notes I took last Friday and forgot to post: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I dumped the list of sites from HTTPArchive (query below) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and after de-duping them, ended up with 835 sites. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I then ran a script which naively looks at response codes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and got the following results: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2XX count: 685/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3XX to HTTP endpoint count: 74/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4XX count: 3/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5XX count: 2/835 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, from this dataset, roughly 9% of those redirect to an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTTP endpoint. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This should say HTTPS, not HTTP. I am bad at typing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I think reducing risk of breakage for enterprise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environments is a useful and friendly thing to do. LGTM2 w/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that done. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SELECT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rank, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> url, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FROM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `httparchive.blink_features.features` >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHERE feature = 'OpenWebDatabaseInsecureContext' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ORDER BY rank ASC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Ayu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 30, 2022 at 10:57:01 PM UTC-7 Mike West >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm happy to see this moving forward, thanks for pushing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it ahead! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, this seems like the kind of thing that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely-enough to impact enterprise that we should include a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opt-out to give ourselves some wiggle room if it turns out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undercounting usage. Have y'all already put something like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that together? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 2:18 AM Ayu Ishii < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ay...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Contact emails *ay...@chromium.org, jsb...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ajayra...@google.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Specification *https://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Summary *We intend to deprecate and remove usage of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL in non-secure contexts. Deprecation is targeted for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M105 and removal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is targeted for M107. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Blink component *Blink>Storage>WebSQL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EStorage%3EWebSQL> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Motivation *The Web SQL Database standard was first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposed in April 2009 and abandoned in November 2010. Gecko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implemented this feature and WebKit deprecated this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature in 2019 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/commit/761bce943c0696a6bb93116eb0576ed07dbfdc65>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The W3C encouraged those needing web databases to adopt Web >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Storage <https://www.w3.org/TR/webstorage/> or Indexed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Database <https://www.w3.org/TR/IndexedDB/>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL has been deprecated and removed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/TM6YDx1Hh08> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for third-party contexts in M97. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We hope to entirely deprecate and remove WebSQL at some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future point when usage is low enough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *TAG review *N/A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based on usage measurements >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4073> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled out in M97, 0.005% of page loads use WebSQL in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-secure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context. Less than 0.01% of top sites have adopted this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Out of the 20 top sites listed for the month of April >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, 11 of the sites use a feature detection library >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Modernizr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.5 <https://modernizr.com/news/modernizr-15>, on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version released in 2010. This would create a test database >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to check >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature availability. I was unable to reproduce the creation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL databases outside of the one created by Modernizr on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these sites. 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sites that seem to use an outdated private mode >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> detection script <https://stackoverflow.com/q/48169810> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which was intended for older versions of iOS. All the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scripts I have found >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checked if window.openDatabase existed before usage, likely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to the lack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of support in Gecko and WebKit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Never implemented >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Deprecation shipped in iOS 13 and Safari 13 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/277564/webkit> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: No signals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Debuggability *N/A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not fully, one test >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/web_tests/external/wpt/clear-site-data/support/test_utils.sub.js;l=136> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checks the availability of the feature. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Tracking bug *https://crbug.com/1212492 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to related intents >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Deprecate and Remove: WebSQL in third-party >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contexts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/TM6YDx1Hh08> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5175124599767040 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 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