That's why the draft is needed but only informational.
I know implementors waiting for this draft to implement the interwroking. For 
those who have yet implemented the interworking, what are they afraid of ? They 
don't care.
It is obviously possible that everyone do it on his side, but the consequence 
is that bad mapping will introduce wrong information in History-Info header. 
To avoid various interpretations, a guidline is useful.

Regards,
Marianne



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Elwell, John [mailto:[email protected]] 
Envoyé : vendredi 20 mars 2009 09:21
À : DRAGE, Keith (Keith); MOHALI Marianne RD-CORE-ISS; [email protected]
Cc : [email protected]
Objet : RE: [BLISS] 
TR:NewVersionNotificationfordraft-mohali-diversion-history-info-01

And I can chime in with work that Ecma-International did a few years ago, 
published as Standard ECMA-360, on mapping between History-Info (in draft form) 
and QSIG. I expect that mapping to/from QSIG has many similarities to mapping 
to/from the Diversion header field. At the time the SIPPING group was not 
interested in taking this up, so I don't see why 5 years later it suddenly 
becomes important. As Keith says, people are already doing it.

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
> Of DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
> Sent: 19 March 2009 22:48
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [BLISS] TR: 
> NewVersionNotificationfordraft-mohali-diversion-history-info-01
> 
> I believe my implementors have implemented History-Info.
> 
> I believe my implementors have implemented Diversion.
> 
> They have implemented interworking between the two.
> 
> Assuming you use my implementations as reference implementations and 
> document exactly what they do, and nothing else, I have no problem 
> with proceeding with this work.
> 
> Other people may however have a problem with that approach, but I am 
> quite happy to ignore them.
> 
> regards
> 
> Keith
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
> > Behalf Of [email protected]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:58 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Cc: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [BLISS] TR: NewVersion
> > Notificationfordraft-mohali-diversion-history-info-01
> > 
> > Hi Dale,
> > My answer in your text.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Marianne
> > 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la 
> > part de Dale Worley Envoyé : mercredi 18 mars 2009
> > 23:04 À : BLISS Objet : Re: [BLISS] TR: NewVersion
> > Notificationfordraft-mohali-diversion-history-info-01
> > 
> > On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 09:21 -0500, Mary Barnes wrote:
> > > And, the standardization of this document could well take
> > longer than
> > > it will take to complete 4244bis. Per my list of pros/cons, to be 
> > > correct and useful, this document is effectively standardizing 
> > > Diversion header, which is actually more work than what's
> > being done
> > > in the 4244bis and target-uri docs. So, you're waiting either way.
> > 
> > The wretched reality is that you can't solidify interoperation 
> > between Diversion and History-Info until you get *both* headers 
> > defined, and everyone agrees that Diversion is not fully defined and 
> > the definition of History-Info needs to be revised.
> > [MM] The matter is not to say if Diversion is fully defined, it is 
> > that the Diversion header is fully implemented. So, it could defined 
> > in 5 minutes as it has not to be updated. An historical document is 
> > enough. About History-Info, I think it is yet late to revise 
> > History-Info but better late than never. The fact is that 
> > implementors are yet working on its implementation (and it is yet 
> > implemented for some of them) and they need this interworking today 
> > (if not yesterday). If the RFC4244bis is backward compatible, there 
> > is no issue standardizing the interworking from now and the 
> > interworking could be udated easily to be in line with the new 
> > History-Info.[/MM]
> >  
> > As for which header occupied the promised land first, it's not 
> > immediately clear:  draft-levy-sip-diversion-08 existed in 2004, and
> > draft-barnes-sipping-history-info-02 existed in 2003.
> > [MM]First, I AM NOT COMPARING THOSE HEADERS. You are raising an 
> > useless point. We want to move forward and not to say if
> > v08 of one was before v02 of the other (but for your information, 
> > first Diversion draft existed in oct 2000 and first History-Info 
> > draft existed in oct 2002 and becames
> > RFC4244 in 2005). Both headers are differents and History-Info has a 
> > larger scope than Diversion, that's why it has been standardized. 
> > Because discussions were too long, Diversion header was widely 
> > implemented. That is the facts and it is the only reason why we need 
> > an interworking guideline if we want that H-I header becomes the 
> > only implemented solution.[/MM]
> > 
> > Any even slight official blessing of conversion between the two will 
> > lead people to consider that SIP supports both headers equally, 
> > which increase the complexity of the protocol and implementations.
> > [MM]If it is "necessary" to standardize Diversion header, it is 
> > recommended to make an historical document.[/MM]
> > 
> > On the other hand, there is no reason that the *work* can't go on, 
> > even if it receives no support from the IETF.  Indeed, it's clear 
> > that there are market support for doing the work, which means that 
> > the work *will* go on.
> > 
> > We can exploit that -- Let us delay *official* recognition until 
> > it's clear whether the interoperation will work well or badly.  
> > Since operators *will* get experience defining and using 
> > interoperation, we can make the big decisions when we know better 
> > what the consequences are.
> > [MM] This work has yet been done with operators and implementors. 
> > Since the draft was available, everybody could do comments. The only 
> > thing to do if we have to wait is to update the document according 
> > to RFC4244bis but in my opinion, it will be late.[/MM]
> > 
> > Dale
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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