Hi Frantisek,
steering this to the bloat list, as I have a hunch my response might not be
appropriate for the wide audience in NNagain even though this can have NN
ramifications.
> On Dec 11, 2023, at 10:50, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
> <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Top story on HN:
>
> h++ps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744
>
> My pick for top comment:
>
> <image_6487327.JPG>
>
>
> A possible L4S end game? 😁
Unlikely, as that would e.g. violate EU directive 2015/2120 too blatantly. My
take is more subtle, L4S is essentially a technique that only works well for
short RTTs and the end game is to make datacenter space inside eyeball-ISPs
much more desirable and hence yielding higher prices... L4S effectively
increases TCPs existing RTT bias* and hence makes long range L4S connections
undesirable/under-performing, and that implies that content providers that want
to use L4S will need to get their servers/CDNs close to the eye-balls. But hey,
I would love to be wrong and ISPs jus do this out of the goodness of their
hearts... (only then I would politely ask the to deploy a flow queueing AQM
instead of DualQ, as that in one swoop will solve a ship-load of L4S problems).
Regards
Sebastian
*) L4S argues that this is not an increase, but that due to removing
traditional TCP's excess queueing it just reveals TCPs inherent RTT bias; IMHO
that is a bull shit argument since the root cause is not important, what
matters is that with L4S RTT bias becomes measurably worse.
P.S.: I think my mail provider marks outgoing mails with too many links as
SPAM, so I need to make the URLs invisible, and I believe replacing the t's in
h t t p with plus signs does the trick...
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
> h++ps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> Skype: casioa5302ca
> frantisek.bor...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain
> <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda for AQM.
> I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that my algorithm came
> down from God himself. It's not true though.
>
>
> Bob
> On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain
> <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend to
> use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all
> other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends
> badly.
>
> Best regards,
> Sauli
>
> On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> wrote:
> Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general public, really
> - it’s an article in The Verge :-)
>
> But yeah. Here’s something they should address:
>
> h++ps://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings
>
> In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest L4S
> problem:
>
> h++ps://www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
> h++ps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> Skype: casioa5302ca
> frantisek.bor...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain <
> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> About L4S
>
>
> h++ps://www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth
>
> It says something about their target audience that they feel they need to
> explain bytes vs bits.
>
> Thanks,
> --MM--
> Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use force
> to apply it to others.
>
> Matt Mathis (Email is best)
> Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call.
>
>
> Nnagain mailing list
> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net
> h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>
>
>
> Nnagain mailing list
> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net
> h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net
> h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net
> h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
