…and I’m adding NN again, because: No matter which evil end game is actually the one, it will create a quite a havoc.
Seeing, for example Netflix, participating in L4S trail (they said it was for their cloud gaming, while at IETF 118) is in my mind the same like seeing a capitalist, an entrepreneur selling a rope to a bloodthirsty communist that want to create a noose to hang him on it :-) but if one don’t see/hear evil…there is no hope. All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.bor...@gmail.com On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 at 10:52 AM, Sebastian Moeller <moell...@gmx.de> wrote: > Hi Frantisek, > > steering this to the bloat list, as I have a hunch my response might not > be appropriate for the wide audience in NNagain even though this can have > NN ramifications. > > > > On Dec 11, 2023, at 10:50, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain < > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > > Top story on HN: > > > > h++ps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744 > > > > My pick for top comment: > > > > <image_6487327.JPG> > > > > > > A possible L4S end game? 😁 > > Unlikely, as that would e.g. violate EU directive 2015/2120 too blatantly. > My take is more subtle, L4S is essentially a technique that only works well > for short RTTs and the end game is to make datacenter space inside > eyeball-ISPs much more desirable and hence yielding higher prices... L4S > effectively increases TCPs existing RTT bias* and hence makes long range > L4S connections undesirable/under-performing, and that implies that content > providers that want to use L4S will need to get their servers/CDNs close to > the eye-balls. But hey, I would love to be wrong and ISPs jus do this out > of the goodness of their hearts... (only then I would politely ask the to > deploy a flow queueing AQM instead of DualQ, as that in one swoop will > solve a ship-load of L4S problems). > > Regards > Sebastian > > > *) L4S argues that this is not an increase, but that due to removing > traditional TCP's excess queueing it just reveals TCPs inherent RTT bias; > IMHO that is a bull shit argument since the root cause is not important, > what matters is that with L4S RTT bias becomes measurably worse. > > > P.S.: I think my mail provider marks outgoing mails with too many links as > SPAM, so I need to make the URLs invisible, and I believe replacing the t's > in h t t p with plus signs does the trick... > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > h++ps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.bor...@gmail.com > > > > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain < > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda for > AQM. I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that my > algorithm came down from God himself. It's not true though. > > > > > > Bob > > On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain < > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend to > > use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all > > other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends > > badly. > > > > Best regards, > > Sauli > > > > On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> > wrote: > > Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general public, > really > > - it’s an article in The Verge :-) > > > > But yeah. Here’s something they should address: > > > > h++ps://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings > > > > In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest L4S > > problem: > > h++ps:// > www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX > > > > > > > > > > All the best, > > > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > h++ps://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.bor...@gmail.com > > > > > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain < > > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > > About L4S > > > > h++ps:// > www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth > > > > It says something about their target audience that they feel they need > to > > explain bytes vs bits. > > > > Thanks, > > --MM-- > > Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use force > > to apply it to others. > > > > Matt Mathis (Email is best) > > Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call. > > > > > > Nnagain mailing list > > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net > > h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > > > > > > > Nnagain mailing list > > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net > > h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net > > h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > _______________________________________________ > > Nnagain mailing list > > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net > > h++ps://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > >
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