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[email protected] Today's topics: * Food for thought.../ Call for Action - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/5fb4e66ac6c240c4?hl=en ============================================================================== TOPIC: Food for thought.../ Call for Action http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/5fb4e66ac6c240c4?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Tues, Oct 9 2007 10:24 am From: Shoubhik Shantanu/ Sanjeev Sorry for not responding last weekend - I only realize now that both of you have too much to say and all of us may or may not have the time to write on the dozens of blogs and other forums. So, I contacted KCA himself on this, and he agreed on a Face-to-Face meeting. I would ask you to come for a meeting this week in Delhi/ Noida/ Gurgaon - if its OK with you. And, you may also invite your respected friends/ colleagues/ acquaintances who are really interested, and have enough conviction with their ideas and suggestions for the new System... like Sanjeev. I live in Gurgaon, but our CI office is in Noida, so latter would be preferred. Any issues? Shantanu: As far as your blogging site is concerned, do as you please - you can copy my emails to any blog you wish. Anyhow these BM Google groups I tend to copy are public, so what problem can I have? Let me clarify: The Purpose of the F2F Meet would be to get us all on the same page...so that we all are clear on what is there on Sanjeev's mind, and whether he has understood what we are going to do. Once we have had a couple of full-blown face-offs, with all sides bouncing off their ideas, we can unanimously decide on how to drive the key system messages among our Peoples... (e.g.the Internet-enabled population is just 1%, hence we tend to reach out more off-line.. Helps manifold in connecting to our People on various levels of thought). Thank you very much. Looking forward to your decision on when to have a meeting...this week is preferred - latest by Saturday please :-) Best, Shoubhik www.ShapingIndia.org <http://www.shapingindia.org/> P.S. : Sanjeev: I love our thoughts, and can't resist the temptation to say this: We all have such a psychological investment in What IS, we just cannot see What Might Be - at the F2F meeting, I can give you ample proof of why I was acting CLOSED in this email chain, and why you had to counter saying you were open. I'm Sorry if I seem to be "belittling" you - sincerely apologise for the tone of my language...some heat inside perhaps. The point I'm trying to drive home will be discussed F2F. JAI HIND. We can, and will, do it... On 9/28/07, B Shantanu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > All, > This is a vey hurried response (and I will separately comment on Shoubhik > and Sanjeev's thoughts). > > But I very much liked Sanjeev's suggestion of a public discussion on this > - not to belitlle each other's thoughts/ideas - but so that all of us can > benefit from the discussion....hopefully even better ideas will follow as a > result of some debate and open airing of thoughts. > > *I am offering my blog as a forum for doing this - and if both Shoubhik > and Sanjeev are OK with it, I will put these emails on the blog before the > weekend to serve as a starting point*. > > What do you think? > > Shantanu > > > On 9/27/07, Sanjeev Sabhlok <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > Dear Shoubhik > > > > Thanks for raising a discussion re: some of my > > suggested pathways to a free India. I deeply > > appreciate the commitment and effort your group > > represents, and look forward to an informed debate and > > discussion on the alternative system your group > > proposes. That, indeed, is exactly what I have > > suggested in chapter 7 of my book that we all do: > > instead of whining and cribbing about the system, let > > us all propose our specific solutions and precise > > plans of action, and let us then us all have a debate > > and come to an agreement. > > > > At this stage, I have a request: would you please > > elaborate on why the solutions I have proposed won't > > work? I'd really appreciate that. As my book is still > > a draft, I'll be very happy to consider solid > > arguments against why the solutions I propose won't > > work. I am completely open to change if persuaded that > > there are better ways out there that I have missed. > > > > I can suggest, though, at the outset, that it is not > > going to be easy to persuade me to better solutions: > > you'll have to come up with something dramatically > > better that I have never come across in my life or in > > my extensive readings. I have worked for nearly two > > decades within the Indian system and so know it > > 'inside out', and also within one of the world's most > > outstanding bureaucracies, in Australia. Without > > sounding arrogant -- which I hope I am not -- I do > > perhaps know a fair bit about good governance. And I > > seriously wonder which solutions I have missed in > > proposing the best possible solutions for India. But > > as I have said, I am open to persuasion. But you've > > got to paint a clear picture; not simply trash my > > solutions. > > > > By the way, I'd rather have this discussion publicly - > > as then, many others can then get involved and > > benefit; would you therefore mind please posting your > > comments on Shantanu's blog, and I'll respond there? > > > > With regards, > > > > Sanjeev > > > > --- Shoubhik Purkayastha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hello Shantanu > > > > > > Appreciate your understanding.... > > > > > > You, Shantanu, are among the few people I have seen > > > who are beginning to > > > "get it"...that we, the People are not to blame, but > > > the System of > > > Governance we have inherited is the cause of all our > > > miseries and ills, of > > > our suffering masses. > > > > > > As far as comments on the insightful views of > > > Sanjeev are concerned, you > > > must have already read my previous email to Kamal of > > > BM: > > > Such proposed (electoral to constitutional) reforms > > > are simply NOT going to > > > work in the current SYSTEM. As much I respect > > > Sanjeev's understanding of the > > > "upper end" of system fallacies, the lower end is > > > seemingly awash with > > > critique of the inability of erstwhile leaders. > > > > > > Remember one thing, both of you: > > > -->> ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS....ABSOLUTELY - without > > > exception. > > > > > > -->> As good as you think you may be, you shall be > > > actually incapable of > > > doing ANY good in the current SYSTEM. Dr Manmohan > > > Singh is a very good > > > example, who, acknowledged as being among the > > > world's best economists, and a > > > man of integrity, could Not do anything of worth - > > > an understatement. > > > Validation? We have gone from Inflation to > > > Hyper-inflation in less than a > > > blink of an eyelid (if you look at the history span > > > of the paper-currency > > > system). > > > > > > To emphasize this point, I repeat my earlier > > > analogy: Throwing a bowl of > > > sugar into the ocean, doesn't make it any > > > sweeter....does it? Think what > > > happens to the sugar... > > > > > > Does Sanjeev think there is something in the > > > proposed "reforms" that has not > > > been proposed earlier by all our "thinkers" in the > > > bureaucracy, the > > > judiciary and the legislature? He is free to think > > > so, its just that its NOT > > > going to work unless we CHANGE the SYSTEM entirely. > > > > > > What's to be deployed once we do that? For starters, > > > simply hop on to > > > www.ShapingIndia.org and get the book "Crusade > > > India" for FREE. > > > > > > Lets DO it together, Shantanu. > > > > > > All the Best....and JAI HIND. > > > > > > Towards a new dawn, > > > Shoubhik > > > > > > Ambassador, Crusade India > > > www.ShapingIndia.org > > > > > > http://profiles.TakingITGlobal.org/shoubhik > > > Mobile : +91-9810729433 > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > On 9/23/07, B Shantanu < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Fellow concerned citizens: > > > > > > > > Read this article and please share your thoughts > > > and comments...The > > > > problem we have is one of systemic failure and the > > > solution lies in > > > > fundamental change and re-thinking. It is now too > > > late for incremental > > > > solutions. > > > > Jai Hind, Jai Bharat. > > > > > > > > Politics and Corruption: Here's how to "fix the > > > system" > > > > > > > > > http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/09/14/fixing-the-system/ > > > > > > > > _ > > > > > > > > > > > > __,_._,__ > > > > > > > > > > > > > sanjeev sabhlok > > 614-07096704 (mobile) > > 613-98501583 (home) > > Skypeid: sanjeevsabhlok > > Jajah: sabhlok > > http://sanjeev.sabhlokcity.com/ > > > > > > Get the World's number 1 free email service. > > www.yahoo.com.au/mail > > > > > > > -- > Read my blog at http://satyameva-jayate.org/ -- Yours for Greatness, Shoubhik Purkayastha Ambassador, Crusade India www.ShapingIndia.org email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://profiles.TakingITGlobal.org/shoubhik Mobile : +91-9810729433 -- Yours for Greatness, Shoubhik Purkayastha Ambassador, Crusade India www.ShapingIndia.org email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://profiles.TakingITGlobal.org/shoubhik Mobile : +91-9810729433 ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. 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