[uucdigest] Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 03 : Number 116 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] RE: need front spoiler/air dam [uuc] Prices bloating? [uuc] Re: friction! [uuc] 2002 Questions [uuc] RE: [uucdigest] BMW prices bloating? Audi stealing lunch? [uuc] RE: E46 M3 - Price on new M3?? [uuc] 50k for amg or audi hahha [uuc] BMW market position, M3 prices Re: [uuc] RE: E46 M3 - Price on new M3?? Re: [uuc] BMW market position, M3 prices [uuc] NJ Chapter Banquet 2-19-2000 [uuc] Ranting and Raving about Uninsured Motorist [uuc] ABS stopping distances ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:13:20 -0500 From: Mark Borchik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: need front spoiler/air dam Scott, What... You didn't go back and look for it??? It's not like it would be that hard to see! BTDT... But, I went back, and re-traced my route the next day, and lo, and behold... Thar she blew (shiver me timbers)! None worse for the wear, to boot, matey! Mark Borchik http://www.gruppeb.com > Well, it snowed again, but I'm feeling pretty sheepish this time. Somewhere > out there is the front spoiler/air dam off my car. Oops. Goofing off a > little too much. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:56:48 -0800 (PST) From: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Prices bloating? I agree the S4 is a good deal but it has 250 some odd horsepower not 280--a chip will get you to 300. The serious S4 boys have already changed the brakes--I don't think they at all superior to an M3's. They have also yanked out the stock suspension for coilovers due to excessive body roll. But, it is definitely a nice option and comes in four doors. I would consider one because my wife is insistent that I buy a 4 door. Will a real BMW nut pay an extra 10k for a 320+hp M3? I think they will. I think BMW will eventually respond like any business. If they are losing share, drop the price a bit and see if it picks up. Problem is, they are selling most of the cars they are able to make right now. Kevin Kelly 91 M5 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:01:33 -0800 (PST) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: friction! On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Moe Drippins wrote: > Richard writes: > > > Please explain how on a dry flat surface a car which > > locks its wheels (non ABS) will not stop as quick as a > > car with wheels still turning (ABS)when braking hard > > from speed. > > Some specific reasons why have been mentioned already, but also static > friction is generally (always?) more than dynamic. When the wheel is > locked, it's dynamic with respect to the surface (moving across it); > with ABS it's relatively static with respect to the surface. On a related note, is there a term for the difference between the static coefficient and the dynamic coefficient? I guess I would call it the confidence factor. If the 2 coefficients are close together, the transition from static to sliding is not all that spectacular - like nice dry pavement. If the 2 vary greatly, then it's far more terrifying - like walking on a wet steel plate in the city, or driving on some wet pavement. Everything feels good until you break traction, and then watch out! - -- John Bolhuis | "In America it is not considered to be mentally ill bolhuijo | when a woman advances on her prey in a discotheque @bolhuijo.com | setting with hardy cocktails present." | -Madonna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:15:33 -0800 From: "Chen, Philip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] 2002 Questions Hello, I'm thinking about getting a 2002 (hopefully early 70s) as a project car and I've got some questions. Hopefully someone out there can help me out by answering these questions. TIA... 1. What is the best year as far as a 2002 goes? 2. What kind of a price range am I looking at? I'm not looking to get the performance tii model, just something my friends & I can work on and possibly take to autocross (eventually). 3. Any informative web sites about these cars? 4. Anyone know what model years were exempt from emission tests? I live in California & hate to have to deal with emission on such an old car. I thought it was 1975 but am not sure. 5. Any known issues I should be on the look out for as far as buying one? Again, thanks for any help. Phil 99 Esto M3/2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:24:29 -0800 From: Russ Coppes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: [uucdigest] BMW prices bloating? Audi stealing lunch? I agree. The GGC got bitch slapped by a A4 S4tt and a good driver last year at out autox. I was working the course on their runs, and remember saying right off, "were done". Gonzo class E36 //M3s <file://M3s> with good drivers struggled to get close and never surpassed the Audis best run. And traditionally, VW and Audi have excellent aftermarket support. The only better aftermarket might be GM. Hell, aftermarket companies are sill making VW bug blocks and engines!!! The simplicity of those air cooled engines makes them perfect for kit cars, sand rails(I built one of these with a full blown 2180cc@210hp) and various other aftermarket stuff. BMW better take a close look. Mercedes is making a cencerted run also. I really like the MB E430 Sport. This is one tasty rig. The exterior styling is top notch. The ground effect are really nice without being "boy racer" gawdy. The segments that BMW is in are chalk full of worthy competitors that want a piece of this pie. RussC '88 535is Dinan Turbo Final Edition >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] >Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 1:44 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [uucdigest] V3 #114 > >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:04:26 -0500 >From: Filippo Morelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] BMW prices bloating? Audi stealing lunch? > >At 03:23 PM 1/25/00 -0500, John F Stoj wrote: >[...snip...] >>When I hear people speaking about the possible rice of the >new M3 in the >>fifties, I start thinking, "heck, I may as well just buy a >911 and be done >>with it." >[...snip...] > >911? Price a Boxster? You can option the Porsche Boxster out in to the >$80k's ... twice >the base price. And that's for a car that two friends of mine in the >Porsche service world summarize as, "garbage". > >Go look at the Audi cars ... they are causing lots of market >share trouble >in Europe and starting to make a dent in the US as well. Let's >see ... Audi >S4 ... 280hp stock, and with a chip make gobs more power, AWD, nicely >finished with great standard features and whistles -- people >are walking >out of the showrooms for $41k. Brakes are huge. $41k doesn't get you a >loaded 328i, much less an E46 M3. > >One diehard BMW friend bought his S4 a couple weeks back. He's doing >nothing but raving about the car -- and he currently owns more >than a half >dozen BMWs. > >Ever follow A4.org (now AudiWorld.com)? There have always been Audi >enthusiasts, but it is rising at a phenomenal rate. The >aftermarket for the >A4 is huge. > >Hopefully BMW is paying attention. Mid-fifties for an E46 M3? >We'll see >what happens. Maybe it is that much better an automobile. >Regardless, it >pays to be humbled. > >Cheers, > >Filippo Morelli > > ///M ///M ///M ///M ///M ///M ///M > www.bimmers.com > = = ( ) ( ) = = >"Supporting enthusiasts on the Internet!" > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:02:53 -0800 From: "Jerry Chyo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: E46 M3 - Price on new M3?? Ken Lam wrote: > > BMW has never tested a V8 M3 and they do not ever intend on shoehorning > a V8 in a 3 series chassis. This car is only a rumor created by the > automotive journalists. The only company putting V8s in the 3 series is > Alpina. Maybe...but I was told of a V8 E46 M3 by a BMW salesperson at My BMW in Seaside, CA a few years ago. He's also the guy who told me when the E39 M5 was coming and the price (he was right) and that the first E46 M3 would be about a 350hp six (he was close). He told me all this PRIOR to NA announcing anything about the E46 M3. Point being, he has never mislead me or fed me bullsh*t. Always pretty much on the mark. He doesn't get his info from Autoweek either. Never say never...and continue to hope. :^) Jerry Chyo 88 M5 72 tii ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:13:22 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] 50k for amg or audi hahha Jim said <At 55K you can get a damn nice AMG Merc or Audi with a V8 and Quattro. Too bad BMW can't figure out how to sell cars as economically as the other Germans. But then again, hiring talent like the recently departed ///M-Boy, it doesn't surprise me at all. Jim> I agree at that price you can, but then you still have a Audi or a Merc. in which case you would be on a different digest. Brian (you get what you pay for)Jacobs 98 318ti 99 Z3 coupe Everglades CCA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:25:56 +1100 From: "Thomas, Andrew j" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] BMW market position, M3 prices Jim ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: > At 55K you can get a damn nice AMG Merc or Audi with a > V8 and Quattro. Too bad BMW can't figure out how to sell > cars as economically as the other Germans. I concur. BMW charges around A$55,000 down here for a 318. High enough, but higher still when the equivalent Audi (A4 1.8) is A$7,000 cheaper and the equivalent Merc (C180) is A$2,000 cheaper. Spec for spec, too. I can never remember a time, in *any* market, where the base BMW cost more than the base Mercedes. But for those who dislike the price rise involved in collecting the keys to an E46 M3, remember that you are also getting the same car that the rest of the world gets. That didn't happen before. The main reason BMW didn't import the RoW M3 to the US - latterly 81 bhp more, six speeds, uprated brakes and so on - was because people wouldn't pay for it. Now it is going to be imported, and... well, I guess people don't want to pay for it :). Now, about this disclaimer, um... I have some crackers that I've written over the years. Arthur Andersen's UK one was particularly ripe for modification; I'd post an example but the, er, factory option still gets added whether I like it or not. So come on, budding wordsmiths. Rob has thrown down gauntlet. A prize goes for the best interpretation of the disclaimer below (don't hold back now, y'hear). The prize is Four Pints - or local equivalent - of beer/bitter/lager/cider then next time you visit me or I visit you. For those of you eager to sample little-known European brews, please contact John Firestone for suggestions and recommendations. Andy T let us pray... "This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. When addressed to our clients, any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing KPMG client engagement letter. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone +61 2 9335 7000 and destroy the original message. Thank you." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:28:12 -0500 From: Chaz Yoon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: E46 M3 - Price on new M3?? Hopefully, you're right; I think it would be nice to see a V8 E46 M3. Some of the speculation is that if there ever is one, that it'll be offered later, possibly in the third year run of the car. One challenge to the V8 is that it would abandon its inline-6, for which it was so well recognized. Some indicated that such a change would be as devastating as a 911 without the flat-6. Another concern is that the V8 chosen would be a detuned E39 M5 engine, which may not market as well as an engine which is at the top of its own class -- the inline-6. Chaz On Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 05:02:53PM -0800, Jerry Chyo wrote: > Maybe...but I was told of a V8 E46 M3 by a BMW salesperson at My BMW in > Seaside, CA a few years ago. He's also the guy who told me when the E39 M5 > was coming and the price (he was right) and that the first E46 M3 would be > about a 350hp six (he was close). He told me all this PRIOR to NA > announcing anything about the E46 M3. Point being, he has never mislead me > or fed me bullsh*t. Always pretty much on the mark. He doesn't get his > info from Autoweek either. > > Never say never...and continue to hope. :^) - -- Chaz Yoon http://christabel.mit.edu/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:28:35 -0800 From: Jim Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] BMW market position, M3 prices Its not the price. If that's what technical excellence and class-leading performance costs then that's what it costs. But, BMW is shaving the performance edge to the bone. Since we haven't seen the E46 M3 yet, it may no longer even BE the best car against the Merc or the S4 etc. The point being, the M3 will be worth the money, if its WORTH the extra money. If its a me-too car for that kind of premium, I'll be staying home with my money. Jim "Thomas, Andrew j" wrote: > But for those who dislike the price rise involved in collecting the keys to > an E46 M3, remember that you are also getting the same car that the rest of > the world gets. That didn't happen before. The main reason BMW didn't import > the RoW M3 to the US - latterly 81 bhp more, six speeds, uprated brakes and > so on - was because people wouldn't pay for it. Now it is going to be > imported, and... well, I guess people don't want to pay for it :). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:38:51 -0500 From: Gary Bossert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] NJ Chapter Banquet 2-19-2000 Hi folks, Just a reminder that this years banquet is approaching fast so please get your coupons in to Roxana Melnitschenko as soon as possible. The deadline for sign up is February 4th and we are limiting it to 200 attendees. You can contact her to confirm at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This year the chapter went all out and decided to have it at the Basking Ridge Country Club February 19th. This is a great location and it is very close to Rte 287 and not far from Rte 78 as well. This will be unlike any previous banquet in style and substance. This is a once in a lifetime event for our chapter. The band is great and they specialize in 60's Rock and Motown hits. The lead singer, Terry King, was a member of the Drifters. They won't disappoint, I guarantee it. There will be a cocktail hour with piano 6-7pm and then dinner and dancing 7-11pm. There will be some great door prizes as usual. Last year we gave away two BMW folding bikes! So come out for an evening of fine food, dancing and good friends. I can't think of anything better to do (car club related) on a cold night in February. The cost to you is $45 per person which is a bargain for the type of affair this will be. The Chapter is heavily subsidizing this event so please come out and support it. All BMW CCA members and their guests are invited. Also, please talk it up to other club members you might run into. - -Gary Bossert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:11:15 -0500 From: "Henry Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Ranting and Raving about Uninsured Motorist It is always a good idea to call the police, whenever someone hit you, regardless. If they hit you and run without you getting a license plate #, your insurance underwriter and claim rep may consider the accident caused by a "phantom" vehicle. which could then translate into you lied and it will cost you at renewal. At the very least get the license plate # before you exchange info. I was hit from behind at a stop light by a driver that just wasn't paying attention. Before saying he was sorry, he said he will "take care" of all damages. We exchanged insurance information ect. I also got the Vin # off the car, plate # and car description. Since it was just rear bumper damage and I had all the info I needed I decided not to call the police. However, after he left I decided he could have been lying and called the police. When the police arrived, I told what happened and gave all the details to include the cars vin and plate#. Later that evening the officer called me at home and said he located the driver. The driver had lied about everything. The only way he found him was with the plate and vin# The office told me that when he initially questioned the driver he lied about everything. The office then told him if he didn't come clean, he was going to make matters worst. The driver was driving his fianc� mothers car with a suspended license. The SOB then admitted to the damage. The SOB ended up in court and I had to send the court a letter saying he had paid for all my damages. I also pointed out that without the efforts of the officer, this A**hole would have gotten off. Henry '92 325i ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: "K.C. Boyce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] ABS stopping distances Richard M. writes: > Please explain how on a dry flat surface a car which > locks its wheels (non ABS) will not stop as quick as > a car with wheels still turning (ABS)when braking > hard from speed. Others have responded as well, but I think I have an analogy that we all can relate to. What we're dealing with is a simple case of sliding (non-ABS locked-wheel stop) versus rolling (ABS stop) friction. Anyone who's ever moved something heavy by sliding it across the floor can tell you the difference...it takes a lot of energy to get the object moving, and less energy to keep it moving. Compare this to what you want your wheels to do in a stop, which is to allow you brakes to turn your kinetic energy into heat as quickly and efficiently as possible. A rolling tire is essentially a static-friction environment (your heavy object before you get it moving). It therefore can "resist" the most energy -- allowing the brakes to absorb it. When the tire locks, the brakes become 100% ineffective, as they are no longer turning kinetic energy into heat. The tire is thus doing that job, and, as it's sliding, it will take less energy to keep sliding. Hope that was clear and technically correct enough! KC Boyce '85 325e E30 Eta Page: http://rikki.coloradocollege.edu/~k_boyce/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #116 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. (used & classic BMW parts) e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Curry's Auto Service . http://www.currysauto.com | Eurosport . http://www.eurosport-hp.com | Koala MotorSport . http://www.koalamotorsport.com | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | The Ultimate Garage . http://www.ultimategarage.com | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com | Zionsville Autosport . http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com ����������������������������������������
