[uucdigest] Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 03 : Number 130 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] NADA questions Re: [uuc] Bad accident, any help would be really appreciated [uuc] Bad accident [uuc] Winter driving [uuc] Keep Posting Re: [uuc] bad accident Re: [uuc] BMW Motorsport Calender [uuc] Roll Cage for E36 coupe <OT> Reckless Driving (was Re: [uuc] Bad accident) RE: [uuc] Bad accident [uuc] cops - was bad accident [uuc] accident & driving M5 in slush RE: [uuc] bad accident [uuc] Re: airbag triggers (was bad accident) Re: [uuc] bad accident Re: [uuc] bad accident ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:51:25 -0500 From: Phil Marx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] NADA questions Dave Endersbee wrote: >Anyone have a NADA book lying around? > >I need a value on a '74 3.0s - some turd destroyed >mine Sunday and the adjuster is coming over >this weekend - I work full time and have class each night >so I can't get to the book store before he shows up. Dave, The only NADA book with values for cars of that age is now the Classic, Collectible, and Special Interest Car Appraisal Guide, which is a rare item at the book stores and libraries. According to the Jan-April 2000 edition: Value Range Low Average High '74 3.0S $1225 $3525 $4825 These values are rated as collector cars, meaning "low" is still a decent car and "high" is not quite show-quality. Sure, these values are low considering the nicest stock 3.0S would sell for much more and the "converted" ones such as the S with the E34 M5 engine transplant at O'fest '98 have more that the high value in their paint jobs. I don't think the CCA's Value Coordinator will have many current sale figures to help your case, but I suggest you contact the Senior Six Registry listed in the Special Interest section of the Roundel or go to http://www.seniorsix.org for contact information. Wish I could offer more help. Put up a good fight. - -Phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:54:11 PST From: "William States" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Bad accident, any help would be really appreciated I don't have the Jan Roundel with me, but I remember a blip in there about a couple test driving a 5 series and totaling the car when the driver went into a 90 degree corner too fast and applied the brakes and backed in into a tree. Since there was no frontal impact, the airbags did not deploy. No one was wearing thier seatbelts and I think there where some minor injuries. This is all from memory, so if anyone has that article, please check my facts. William States 99 M3 Silver/grey ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:07:20 -0500 From: "Joseph C. Volpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Bad accident Back in 1990? Two prominent sports figures in Philadelphia were acting like children and driving recklessly in a 500SL. They crashed into a few trees sideways and there airbags did not deploy. In 1990, airbags were still relatively new and unknown to most. But what was found is that front airbags ONLY should deploy in a frontal collision. If they deploy in a side collision, they do more harm by pushing the occupant in the wrong direction. In modern cars with side airbags, the side airbags do no deploy unless the car is in a side collision. Of course Cadillac's are different. My Aunt and Uncle's 1999 DeVille decided to deploy all four airbags at once for no reason. Go American! > > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:47 -0500 > From: "Peter Sterne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [uuc] Bad accident, any help would be really appreciated > > First off, sorry about your accident, happy your here to post to the list > about > it. > > As far as a lawsuit is concerned, I think you need to ask a couple of > questions: > - - Is the airbag supposed to deploy in a side-impact? > - - Do you think the airbag would have lessened/prevented the injury you > sustained? > > If your answer to both of these questions is "Yes", you should seek legal > counsel > (from someone qualified, like a lawyer, instead of me 8^). > > Regards, > Peter Sterne > '93 325is > '91 Miata SE > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> On monday, I'm guessing I hit a patch of black ice because I completely spun >> out and side-impacted the butt end of a guard rail by the side of the road >> and totalled the car. The guard rail went straight into the driver's side >> compartment...no one else was in the car. Luckily, the car behind me stopped >> and the driver cut me out of the seatbelt; I was able to pull myself out and >> wait until the police came. I was rushed to the hospital with a fractured >> pelvic ring and just got back today. I am a very lucky person. Anyway, none >> of my airbags (front or side) deployed, and I am a little pissed to say the >> least. I had taken the '98 E36 328 to get inspection I the week before, >> along with a request to fix the airbags since the airbag light had been on >> for the past few weeks. The service advisor said it was a problem with the >> passenger-side seat belt buckle sensor and that the airbags were operational. >> >> What can I do? Would a lawsuit hold up in court? >> Thank you so much for your help and consideration. >> Theo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: "K.C. Boyce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Winter driving Yeah, I can concur... When I was learning to drive, my dad woke me up early one snowy morning, and we took my mom's Aerostar (RWD, no ABS) out to a snowy parking lot. Donuts, slides, all sorts of fun and mischievious stuff. Then we got my dad's Bonneville (FWD, ABS, traction control) out & did the same. Anyway, it was a fun introduction to driving in the snow. Dunno if it made any difference in my driving, though... KC Boyce '85 325e E30 Eta Page: http://rikki.coloradocollege.edu/~k_boyce/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:30:48 -0800 From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Keep Posting Steve, I for one, like to hear the comments about our brothers across the great pond. I say keep posting. - -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:35:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Yip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] bad accident Gasp!! You mean she took responsibiltiy for her own actions? Damn her - she's giving Americans and lawyers a bad name. It's probably still not too late for her to file a lawsuit agains the car manufacturer, the telephone phone installation company, the snow removal crews and mostly, God for providing the snow. - --- Dean Boucouras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > She did not sue anyone or any company. She realized that she was > driving too fast for the conditions. ===== Matthew Yip [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/mgyip/ '87 GTi 16v - x2 '88 M5 '99 F350 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:35:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Barry J. Bocaner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] BMW Motorsport Calender On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Geoff Marsh-GS wrote: > Has anyone been able to find a BMW Motorsport Calender? My local dealer is out > and they say that they're very hard to come by. anyone have a part # for this? - --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Barry J. Bocaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://web.bocaner.net - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:07:34 -0600 From: Dave Foos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Roll Cage for E36 coupe Hello all, We'll it's freekin' cold in Chicago so there's nothing better to do than to gear-up for another season of driving schools. After Grattan last year, I'm determined to put in harnesses. The problem is deciding between a 1/2 cage or a harness bar. My car (M3) is my daily driver, so I like the flexibility of having a harness bar that can be taken out. Harnesses are cool - but do I want them all year round? The flip side is that the cage is much safer in the case of a roll-over. My concern with a 1/2 cage is street safety. If you got into an accident without a helmet on - could you hit your head on the cage? Any musing, or advice? Thanks in advance. David Foos '95 ///M3 BMW CCA # 172816 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:07:09 -0500 From: "Peter Sterne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: <OT> Reckless Driving (was Re: [uuc] Bad accident) In my wild and crazy youth I managed to roll a VW bug after sliding across to the left side of the road and glancing off a tree. The officer at the scene gave me a written warning for "Failure to Drive Right" 8^). I believe it had to do with crossing onto the left side of the road, but I must agree that it was warranted. I even laughed about it as they were towing away my wrecked Bug. Regards, Peter Sterne '93 325is '91 Miata SE Mark Borchik wrote: > A "Reckless Driving" citation is totally unwarranted, and as Kevin has pointed out, > reckless op must be witnessed by the citing officer. I can't see this citation > standing up in court. However, in jurisdictions that require a citation be issued > at the scene of every accident, standard fare is to issue a "Failure To Control" > citation, because, as the name of the citation suggests, the driver failed to > control his/her vehicle, and THAT citation WILL stand up in court, regardless of the > circumstances involved. > > Mark Borchik > *62 entries on DL in past 12 years* ($$$) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:06:40 -0800 From: "John Coffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Bad accident What is it about airbags I don't like? Humm...explosives! I think there is something fundamentally wrong with explosive devices around the driver. - -John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:02:53 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] cops - was bad accident Getting a ticket after an accident without anyone actually seeing it is kind of like strict liability - i.e. X happened, therefore Y also must have happened. How does it go, post hoc ergo propter hoc? I mean, if some evil person spread motor oil on the road, and you hit it and wrecked, and you get a ticket, does that mean you were "driving recklessly"? There has got to be some "reasonableness" element to a ticket, esp. if it's a criminal one. Get a lawyer. - -Dave '74 3.0s SMASHED (oo=00=xx) http://drive.to/BMW2002 ______________________________________ This message, together with any attachments, is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message,or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender (or the WSPR Help Desk) immediately by telephone (212-858-1000) or by return E-mail and delete the message, along with any attachments, from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:11:43 -0600 From: "Mendez, Andrew D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] accident & driving M5 in slush Man, this is a harsh bunch. I'm surprised no one has weighed in with "Theo should be killed for crashing his BMW." Glad to see Duane back though. Whoever said M5 owner wasn't worthy because he drove it in slush rather than garaging it for winter, you have lost your grasp on reality. Maybe the guy couldn't afford two cars, jackass. Maybe he didn't have a garage. Maybe he prefers to drive his car rather buffing it (huh, huh huh) in the garage. M cars (even the venerable 1988 M5, which to the untrained eye is actually ugly and relatively slow by modern standards, factors more than made up for by the fact that a few parts of it were "hand built" for the sole reason that that was more cost effective than mass producing them on an assembly line, but I digress), while nice, are not Bugattis or 60s Ferraris. They should be driven (in all conditions). Andy '95 M3 only car, no garage, frequently dirty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:18:06 -0500 From: "Cagann, Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] bad accident > Gasp!! You mean she took responsibiltiy for her own actions? Damn > her - she's giving Americans and lawyers a bad name. It's probably > still not too late for her to file a lawsuit agains the car > manufacturer, the telephone phone installation company, the snow > removal crews and mostly, God for providing the snow. Matt, LMAO!!! You forgot the department of transportation that laid the road. Mother nature, tire manufacturer, manufacturer of the plastic covers for the pedals, the company that sold her the morning coffee, her optomotrist, and HBO for making her stay up late the night before. Alex Cagann ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:24:54 -0500 From: "Curt Kiser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: airbag triggers (was bad accident) Mike's right about the accelerometer triggers. I'm pretty sure that most manufacturers are using them. And now for weird but true case #1: My NY state trooper brother-in-law told me the Albany police had disconnected the ABS triggers because they had a rash of robber's intentionally bashing the front of the cruisers during the gettaway. Bags blew and the cops couldn't drive the cars. That's a gutsy move for a bad guy but it worked 4 times! They caught the buggers later. Weird case # 2: Neighbor had the car parked at the airport long-term lot with a air bag anti-theft stick on the steering wheel. Someone hit the car and the bag snapped the anti-theft stick like it was balsa wood. He had to take a cab home after having it flat-bedded! Bummer. Later he developed a skin rash that was determined to come from the slick powder that was packed in the bag compartment. He had to sell the car cause it wouldn't clean up completely. Curt Kiser >actually i understand that most bags are triggered by accelerometers. so >it's rapid deceleration that triggers the bags, not deformation. >m. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:38:42 -0500 From: "Rob Levinson - UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] bad accident <soapbox> The "law" when applied to automobiles isn't about lessons or corrections. It's about revenue. I find the whole idea of "State Troopers" hiding behind billboards and being judge, jury, and executioner for activities we all do, or legitimate accidents, to be so repugnant that it's sickening. I believe in strong speed limit enforcement - AFTER they've rounded up all the murderers, rapists, kidnappers, crooked politicians, drunk drivers, thieves, and people who spit in public, then they will have plenty of time for that. Call me silly, but all of those things seem a little more important than 99% of the traffic stops I see. </soapbox> - - Rob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Wendell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > but... i just think that any dickhead who has to write a ticket to some > guy who just completely totaled his car and is laying there in pain with > a broken pelvis (or whatever) is a total sleeze, talk about adding > insult to injury (assuming, of course, that ths was a single-car > incident, which i believe this was). > > i mean, IF the guy was reckless, i think he learned his lesson. > > m. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:01:57 -0500 From: "Rob Levinson - UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] bad accident <soapbox> The "law" when applied to automobiles isn't about lessons or corrections. It's about revenue. I find the whole idea of "State Troopers" hiding behind billboards and being judge, jury, and executioner for activities we all do, or legitimate accidents, to be so repugnant that it's sickening. I believe in strong speed limit enforcement - AFTER they've rounded up all the murderers, rapists, kidnappers, crooked politicians, drunk drivers, thieves, and people who spit in public, then they will have plenty of time for that. Call me silly, but all of those things seem a little more important than 99% of the traffic stops I see. </soapbox> - - Rob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Wendell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > but... i just think that any dickhead who has to write a ticket to some > guy who just completely totaled his car and is laying there in pain with > a broken pelvis (or whatever) is a total sleeze, talk about adding > insult to injury (assuming, of course, that ths was a single-car > incident, which i believe this was). > > i mean, IF the guy was reckless, i think he learned his lesson. > > m. ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #130 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. 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