[uucdigest] Wednesday, February 9 2000 Volume 03 : Number 226 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Best heat shield material? [uuc] Pro Track Drivers [uuc] Re: where is JimC [uuc] E28 no power [uuc] Is the New M5 a Porker? [uuc] M5 vs. American Cars Re: [uuc] WANTED: E30 M3 1990-1991 Black or Silver in color. [uuc] re: Added a self dimming rear view mirror RE: [uuc] M5 vs. Dodge Viper and American Cars [uuc] $522 for a brake job!!! [uuc] I can admit I've got a problem [uuc] Re: M5 vs. Dodge Viper and American Cars [uuc] Re M5 vs. Dodge Viper comfort [uuc] How to win friends and.. (was: where's Jim) [uuc] Basic Physics Question Continued! Another Question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:26:48 -0700 From: "Rob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Best heat shield material? Hey guys, I need to build an air filter heat shield for another car (not BMW) and I'm wondering what the best material is? I obviously need something that isn't too hard to find and that can be shaped or cut with basic hand tools and also doesn't transfer too much heat to the filter. My first thought was a Rubbermaid type platic or aluminum. Thanks Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:51:56 -0500 From: "Duane Collie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Pro Track Drivers >The discussion started off with how an M5 would not >particularly beat a Viper at the drag strip, but it would destroy the Viper >on the track. I brought up the fact that the M5 with the Michelin Pilots >Sports pulls 1.2 g's <grin> Be careful going to the track with magazine specs! Put a professional driver in a Showroom Stock Dodge Neon and he'll show a rookie that's driving the Viper (and the M5, too) the way to the barn. I was lucky enough to get 4 hot laps with Bill Auberlien at NHIS in 1997 during O'Fest, when Bill was in the promo PTG/BMWNA Lightweight M3 which was mostly in stock configuration. I had a '95 M3 in almost the same trim, and was driving the track before getting the ride, so I know how fast I was going. Ya think yer fast? ...... You ain't fast......This was a religious experience. We were 4-up in the car which is a major weight penalty (especially with my lard-arse in the back seat) and Bill put a hurt on every other car on the track during the Instructor session, while chatting about something like "Where do you go to get a good hamburger around here?"....mai gawd......I'd never experienced anything like that. You think the guy is certifiably insane until you realize that he is IN CONTROL of the car. He goes 101 % on ever corner, every lap, every second on the track. Can't get by the car in front? Use the grass......still balls out.....sawin' the wheel to and fro and having the best time. Every other car there on the track was his enemy when he drives....not a fellow sportsman....THE ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED!! You could see that.....and he was taking no prisoners. I was humbled. On my best day I can probably drive the track at 40% on each and every lap....this guy is 101% all the way around. Edge? There is no edge at his level.....he's beyond the edge. Crossed over it and just kept on going......that's why he's the pro. So ya see, when you go to the trackto match up cars, you gotta have a real driver....not Car and Driver. - - Duane Collie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:51:54 -0700 From: Kurt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: where is JimC We also seem to forget that Jim has a full-time day job as a system engineer/security expert. I can't say I blame him if he wants to go home and enjoy time with his new bride, in the new house, rather than stay up all night deriving equations, reverse engineering engine mangement software, and answering phone calls (or email) from all his friends in the BMW world. - -Kurt > Awwww geeeeezz guys, give pal Jim a bit o'slack here. He has > another life! > He's just moved into a new house and has a new bride, etc., > so mebbee he > can't live - breathe - eat BMW's all the time..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:09:24 -0500 From: "Pharr, Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E28 no power Are you suggesting that the car will actually run with an inoperative in-tank fuel pump? Seems like this should be easy to check. If it is working properly, would I be able to hear it if I pull up the carpet in the trunk? Fuel filter is another good suggestion. - --Jeff Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:50:59 -0500 From: "Phemister, George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E28 no power <<<<<<Pharr, Jeff" reports Subject: [uuc] [E28] Follow up to my 535 'no power' problem. ......................Several folks made a good case for the in-tank fuel pump being the culprit. Maybe I still have an intermittent problem with that pump?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or a permanent problem. Are you sure it's working at all? And the filter? You may want to get the pressure tested - pretty quick and simple. George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:51:14 -0600 From: "Ray Kang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Is the New M5 a Porker? The original E-28 M5 weighed about 3200# The current M5 weighs about 4000# (2 tons!), albeit with much more horsepower. But, the Mercedes E55 weighs 3600#, with a slushbox and slightly bigger engine. For reference, a 1980 Cadillac Seville weighs 3800#. No matter what electronics compensators and engineering advances BMW makes on new models, somehow I can't help but feel that the weight gain of these cars is detracting from what a lighter car could provide in terms of driving experience. Imagine how the new M5 would perform if the BMW weighed what the E55 weighs! Ray Ride with the Best! http://mnhsta.freeservers.com/ Fast toys, and fast rides lead to stories! http://www.users.uswest.net/~kkang/Ray%20Page.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:57:30 -0800 From: Jerry Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] M5 vs. American Cars [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Better take the Viper out of the argument and start picking on his Mustang > Cobra, or is that Mudstain? Rustang? Five-point-slo? heh...heh... gotta > love trash talk. Make the "Mudstang" an FR500 (which you can build with bolt-on Ford Racing parts), and from a performance standpoint, the tables might be turned.... - -jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:54:08 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] WANTED: E30 M3 1990-1991 Black or Silver in color. Hi. I am also looking for one and wonder what you have determined is a reasonable price for these vehicles 89/90/91. Chris Jonathan Reiser wrote: > I am looking to purchase a 1990 or 1991 E30 M3 preferably Black or Silver in > decent shape and low mileage. Will only consider one which is stock or has > modest modifications and was not a dedicated track car. This would be used > as a primary car until I take delivery of an E46. At which time it would > become the new money pit hobby car. Anyone who has one and is looking to > sell it or knows of one for sale please email me. > > TIA > > Jon Reiser > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:05:27 -0500 From: Rich Beebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] re: Added a self dimming rear view mirror Donna Seeley wrote: > The only scene I remember from "Cannonball Run" is when the Ferrari driver > snaps off the rearview mirror, tosses it over his shoulder, and says, "What > is behind me, she does not matter!" that was raul julia (sp?), but wasn't it in the 'real' movie, the "gumball rally"? classic car movie. rich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:21:19 -0500 From: "Holmes, Michael A (Michael)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] M5 vs. Dodge Viper and American Cars They must mean more than "things that get you from here to there." to everyone on this list, as you don't get washing machine digests ! Mike <g> > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Weishaar [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 11:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] M5 vs. Dodge Viper and American Cars > > Consider this for a moment: > > It just bothers me how some people can be so infatuated with these > overpriced German cars that are expensive to own and maintain and are > simply status symbols. They are just cars, things that get you from > here to there. > > Take a moment to realize how snobbish your sentence sounded if heard > through someone else's ears. And if you think non-German cars aren't > designed and engineered, you are a fool. > > Michael > 88 M3 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > PS- It just bothers me how some people can be so infactuated with these > > crude American cars that are just compiled together instead of designed > and > > engineered to eprfection! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:35:57 PST From: "Manuel Paredes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] $522 for a brake job!!! I was at the dealer yesterday checking out the die cast models they had (bought the 1:43 007 Z8!)and over heard a sales lady telling this poor customer how much she was going to pay for what they changed on her car. They charged her $522 for new rotors, pads, and sensors, $130 for a new head light washer jet, and $178 for new belts. She didn't say how much they were charging her for the labor. I stood there in awe as she was reading to the lady and thought to myself, DAM I hope she lubed up. Then I thought to myself how much money I have saved thanks to this list and thought I would give my thanks to all who have ever helped me in one way or another and also to Rob and Ston for creating these excellent lists. If it weren't for you guys I'd a given it up to the stealer also. Thanks Guys! ( I can still wear white on my wedding day!) Manuel Paredes 95 325i sharked, x-ed, M3mflrd LA BMWCCA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:39:10 -0600 From: Dave Foos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] I can admit I've got a problem I'll be the first one to admit that I've got a problem. I can't resist doing 360s and 4 wheel slides in the company parking lot. In the morning, the lot has just a bit of dew left on it - which gives the blacktop the desired 'slideability'... and round and round I go. Other employees try to ignore me as I practice my reverse 180s in the corner of the parking lot (anyone else play "DRIVER"?). Anyway, tires aren't meant to last forever, right?? I know this is bad - and destroys the stuffy image of European car drivers - but I can't help myself. Desperately seeking a solution, David Foos '95 ///M3, so much fun - its GOT to be imported BMW CCA # 172816 P.S. Blizzak MZ-01s have wonderfully predictable handling. P.P.S Anyone interested in a set of 4 winter tires - slightly worn? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:38:37 -0800 From: Roger Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: M5 vs. Dodge Viper and American Cars Gee, I've been out on the track when a 540 sport and Viper were out at Laguna (owned by a couple of guys in the Shelby club I run track events with). Guess what, the Viper couldn't put ANY distance on the 540! Admittedly the guy in the 540 is a pretty good amateur driver, but the Viper guy wasn't a slouch either. Also, I usually have Vipers fall back in the corners & in braking when they're following me in my hybrid 325 w/M3 parts. They only can pass me on the long back strait at Laguna where power rules. BTW, the crude American are fun too! Ever feel the torque rush of the Viper when you pull one of those uphill straits? Makes it feel like you're going downhill in a lower gear on our cars! Roger Baker "[uucdigest]" wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 21:38:54 EST > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [uuc] M5 vs. Dodge Viper and American Cars > > I had a slight disagreement today with one of my buddies who drives a > Cobra and is very into American cars. We usually have disagreements on a > daily basis, based on the performance of German engineered cars compared to > American Muscle cars. The discussion started off with how an M5 would not > particularly beat a Viper at the drag strip, but it would destroy the Viper > on the track. I brought up the fact that the M5 with the Michelin Pilots > Sports pulls 1.2 g's. I remember reading this somewhere and it stuck to my > mind. He laughed and me and said it is a four door sedan. I replied that it > is a four door sedan that would blow the doors off a Viper. I tried to back > myself up with how even 6 cylinder M3's beat Vipers at the track as shown on > Speedvision races, which just blows my mind. Anyone have any leads to > columns written or articles about this topic, especially the 1.2 g's the M5 > pulls? Thanks a lot! > > Milo > 95 M3 > > PS- It just bothers me how some people can be so infactuated with these > crude American cars that are just compiled together instead of designed and > engineered to eprfection! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:44:28 -0800 (PST) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re M5 vs. Dodge Viper comfort On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, RussC wrote: > I would attack the comfort/driveability angle if I were you. The Viper > is a pit to be in, and I would curse it on a long road trip I spoke with a Viper owner who drove his baby home across Nevada & California. He raved about how comfortable it was. (He also said that at extended 90mph top-gear cruising, it still got something like 20mpg) It's not huge inside, but the headroom is better than the M-coupe! - -- John Bolhuis | "In America it is not considered to be mentally ill bolhuijo | when a woman advances on her prey in a discotheque @bolhuijo.com | setting with hardy cocktails present." | -Madonna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:58:27 -0700 From: Jim Conforti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] How to win friends and.. (was: where's Jim) Duane has it about right (as usual): Jim has moved into a new house.. I am still setting up my office.. I am living out of boxes. BUT STILL, I make time for my friends. I was in NY this weekend for the NY Chapter Beach party. Why was I in NY?? Simple, because someone ASKED me to be in NYC, and they took the time to schedule things and Voila, I was there. (Thanks to Charles Karnati and Chet Marfatia) I do NOT act as the "point man" for these gatherings and/or tuning sessions. The point man for the ERT/DC thing was/is Matt Curry of Curry's Auto Service. When he has enough interest in this "session" he can start to make it happen. If someone else would like to start their own session of tuning in the DC area, all they need to do is ask and be ready for the headaches. To suggest that "I consider myself a God" as the reason for why I'm not there is laughable.. Let me suggest another reason. IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO TAKE A VALUABLE WEEKEND, FLY TO A FAR AWAY PLACE, and TUNE CARS whilst paying for all of it out of MY POCKET. Well.. All I can say is: "you need to put away the crack before it puts you away" Or in NYese.. Fuggedaboutit. If you want your car tuned so badly, it's time to step up to the plate and be ready to do all the coordination yourself. Jim. PS: The audacity of people, to call ME names when I refuse to take responsibility for THEIR car really just makes we want to go thermonuclear. In deference to the many nice folks on this list and my blood pressure, I'll pass at this time ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:58:03 -0500 From: "Neil Deshpande" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Basic Physics Question Continued! Another Question. Chip Baines came up with a lucid explanation for the rougher ride on Aaron's 2002. For those who've forgotten the middle-school introduction to Inertia, try the following: Hang up a heavy object like a book with a thin thread. Attach another thread to the bottom. A gentle pull on the lower thread will snap the upper thread, while a sudden tug will snap the lower one. In the first case, the weight of the book and pull on the lower thread add up and put a greater load on the upper thread than the lower, in the second case, the inertia of the book reduces the force seen by the upper thread. If you've never done this, try it! Chip has gone into the physics of the 02 situation well enough. Though these do not apply to the 02, here are some other things that might be of interest: 1. Modern cars have their powerplant/powerplant mounts systems tuned to take out some vibration from the suspension. Changing the powerplant, the mounts, or any part of the suspension will affect this tuning. 2. As cars get stiffer, the effective fraction of the body mass that takes part in a bump goes up. To illustrate, if you lift up on the end of a carpet, pretty much what is in your hand is all that rises, for a sheet of plywood about half might rise, for a really stiff piece of glass slab the whole slab rises. If more of the mass of the body is involved what you have is an increase in the sprung mass unsprung mass ratio. This is good because you can then have stiffer springs and dampers. This is good because the wheels will then be 'held to' the road better. This is good for grip, the ultimate goal. This is why cars are made stiffer with each generation. For a good hands-on illustration, try pressing down on an E-36 vs. an E30. The suspension is much stiffer. Also, the iC suspension is softer than an iS because the iC body is less stiff. I'm going to stop here, but if you stiffen the suspension of an old car too much you might actually get worse handling because you ! unsettle the body instead of just the suspension. Now that I've gone a little overboard with this stuff, can someone tell me why the steering is better with wider tires. Thanks in advance. Neil Deshpande 1988 325 iS 1989 325 iC *** I'm not an expert in vehicle dynamics, but I'll take a shot at it. The suspension system of a car includes the springs, shocks, wheels, and tires, which all have to work in unison to optimize the ride. What you've done is change one element in the suspension system without considering the others. Hence the rougher ride. In your case I bet the reason the ride feels harsher with the new allow wheels is that more force is tranmitted to the car's frame through the shock absorbers than before. Here's my guess as to why. The less massive wheels provide less inertia to oppose forces from bumps, potholes etc. These bumps can be modeled as imparting very brief jolts to the wheel, as trasmitted to the wheel through the side wall of the tire. Remember the formula f delta t = m delta v from physics? Here f is the force imparted on the wheel for a time delta t, m is the mass of the wheel, and delta v is the resulting initial upward velocity of the wheel as it moves over the bump in the road. For a given bump the f delta t is the same for both the light wheel and heavy wheel, but the resulting delta v for the lighter wheel is greater than for the heavy wheel. Hence there's a greater inituial upward velocity, and the shock absorber transmits a larger force to the frame of the car - since this force is proportional to v - and you experience a rougher ride. - - -Chip Baines BMW CCA '86 528e '97 328iC > I'm driving a '76 2002. Stock shocks, springs, etc., in good condition. > > I just went from the stock 13"x5" steel wheels to wider, but much lighter > 13"x5.5" Cosmic aluminum alloys. The same 185/70 13 tires were moved from > the steelies to the alloys. > > My question: The steering has improved noticeably, but the ride is also > much rougher. Do lighter wheels always translate to a rougher/noisier > ride, and why? > - -Aaron > '76 '02--skinny tires all around. > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #226 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. (used & classic BMW parts) e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Curry's Auto Service . http://www.currysauto.com | Eurosport . http://www.eurosport-hp.com | Koala MotorSport . http://www.koalamotorsport.com | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | The Ultimate Garage . http://www.ultimategarage.com | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com | Zionsville Autosport . http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com ����������������������������������������
