[uucdigest] Saturday, February 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 295 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Re:Advice and Fair Trade [uuc] HFM trouble [uuc] Heel and toeing ... in an automatic [uuc] Re: [E36M3] HFM trouble Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique [uuc] Chip's Rant Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique [uuc] OBC answers [uuc] gloves/wheels [uuc] Valve Adjustment Chaos Continued [uuc] Re: turn in Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique Re: [uuc] Heel and toeing ... in an automatic Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 00:32:39 -0800 From: Erick Baumeister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re:Advice and Fair Trade Here, Here! Well said, Chip. The only thing that bothers me more is people who ask "What's the least you will take?", often before they've even looked at the car. When dealing with this type of fool I state my asking price again. I usually get a blank look and they ask the question again. By this time I've gotten a bit PO'd so I tell them "You know, now that I think about it I really can't let this car go for less than X (where X is a few hundred more than my original asking price.) This usually shuts them up real quick. This gets rid of a TON of lookie-loos. I have no problem negotiating with an informed party but I refuse to waste my time with amatuer wheeler-dealers. If I wanted to do that I'd sell cars for a living. Almost as bad this week on the UUC digest: Not only bitching about a "Failure to come to a complete stop" ticket but claiming that you DID stop. I think this is a BS citation. But come on, just because you braked enough to put the car in first and checked the intersection does not mean that you stopped forward motion of the car(which is what the citation is for). It's an unconscious thing, watch yourself the next time you're stopping at those stop signs, especially those near your home that you stop at every day. You'll be surprised. This person stated that they are going to court for this one. Take my advice, bite the bullet on this one. Tell the judge that you slipped,that you live in the neighborhood where the citation was issued and are definitely concerned about the safety of streets in the vicinity of your home. Hopefully the judge will let it slide and you won't get any points on your record. Barter to go to traffic school if you can. I've sat in traffic court enough to tell you that this is one of those tickets that you can just about never beat for several reasons: 1) Everybody does "California Rolls" 2) You usually don't do it consciously and the police and judge know this. 3) When stopping someone for it, citations usually aren't issued unless you make the mistake of claiming that you did stop. The judge knows this too and you are now thought of as the type of person that needs a sobering reminder of the "rules of the road". A lasting reminder if they can stick a few points on your driving record. 4) It's not one of your better revenue-generating tickets, so the police have little incentive to cite you for it unless you really did it. If they're out to make money, speeders are easier and more profitable to cite. 5) OK, let's say you take the "I DID STOP" defense. The first thing the judge will ask you is: "Well, why did this officer pull youv over for it?" Barring some reason for prejudice, you're now stuck on this one. I don't know any stats, but I don't think doing California rolls in your neighborhood is a cause of many accidents. You just got unlucky. Running red lights, well that's another issue. Erick Baumeister- lucky enough that there aren't stop signs at the intersections in my neighborhood. Also a past victim of a "Failure to come to a complete stop" citation. I probably wouldn't have gotten the citation except that I was driving my mother's car and forgot to stash her radar detector! '88 535iA BMWCCA 131280 GGC From: "I.L. Eberhart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [uuc] Advice and Fair Trade > > Someone posted a car for sale. They disclosed the > flaws and their asking price. Someone else came back > and told him the price was too high. Now if the > original poster had ASKED for advice on the price, > fine. If the responder was interested in purchasing > the vehicle the response should have been private. > I don't believe the responder had/has any intention of > purchasing the car. I would be truly pissed if I > posted something for sale and then had someone not > interested in it post that my price was too high. If > there's anyone here that thinks they need to be the > price police, please start at eBay and let us know > when you can fit this little group in. Sometimes it's > a seller's market, sometime's a buyers, but I don't > think it's ever a bystander's market. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 05:21:46 -0500 From: Bill P <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] HFM trouble I have a 1995 ///M3 with an ERT SC. It uses a K&N Conical filter that resides down in the area above the drivers side brake duct. I had just cleaned the filter and re-oiled it. That same day after re-installing the filter the radiator hose snapped off and soaked the filter. After allot of $$$ and a new radiator, my car now runs like sh!t. It like bogs down from 3500 rpm on. Before this happened the car used to bog down at 4000+ rpm ONLY when cold but then ran real strong after? I took the filter and tubing off and noticed that there was oil lining the tubing and Euro HFM. The oil also had the smell of antifreeze. Well I cleaned the HFM with a mild cleaner and ran water over the element for a few minutes. I also used alcohol to clean the HFM element. After re-installing the car sputtered for a few minutes but then started to run fine. But I think it does not pull as hard as it did before. There are no flat spots as before but the car feels slower. Is my HFM fried? Do I need a new one? Has this happened to anyone else? Ohh yes my best friend just bought a 1998 Vette. From 60 mph in 3rd gear I will take him till 100 mph and then he blows by me and puts 11/2 car lengths on my until 120 mph were we both let off. I think I start to creep on him at 110+ but not sure. 2 week ago my car made 333 HP and 282 ft/lbs torque at the real wheels. With that much power I should beat a Vette. SO I ask again, is it my HFM or just my mind? Thank You Bill P ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:42:40 -0500 From: "Timothy Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Heel and toeing ... in an automatic <smartass> My h/t technique in my 94 540ia is to ram my right toe hard on the brake pedal as I approach the turn, plant my left heel firmly on the dead pedal (so I don't slide out of my non-bolstered, non-sport seats), and then hit the throttle as hard as I can and hope the tranny picks a decent enough gear. Sometimes I even turn off the ASC so I can get the back end helping out. </smartass> Now, a serious question. Is it worth attending a driver's school in an automatic equipped car? I can't imagine that it would really matter...the whole idea is to learn how to drive YOUR car fast and safe. Right? But I'm thin skinned and might break out into tears if someone criticized my car. NOT! Tim T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 06:48:17 -0600 From: Suzy Kraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: [E36M3] HFM trouble I experimented with a euro hfm when I had the MechTech turbo on my 97 M3. It was very sensitive as to placement. Turning it just a small amount seemed to change the way the car would run. Maybe when you reinstalled the hfm after cleaning it, you changed the rotation of it slightly. This could change the way the air passes over that element and affect the way the car runs. Just a thought. Suzy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I have a 1995 ///M3 with an ERT SC. It uses a K&N Conical filter that > resides down in the area above the drivers side brake duct. I had just > cleaned the filter and re-oiled it. That same day after re-installing > the filter the radiator hose snapped off and soaked the filter. After > allot of $$$ and a new radiator, my car now runs like sh!t. It like bogs > down from 3500 rpm on. Before this happened the car used to bog down at > 4000+ rpm ONLY when cold but then ran real strong after? I took the > filter and tubing off and noticed that there was oil lining the tubing > and Euro HFM. The oil also had the smell of antifreeze. Well I cleaned > the HFM with a mild cleaner and ran water over the element for a few > minutes. I also used alcohol to clean the HFM element. After > re-installing the car sputtered for a few minutes but then started to > run fine. But I think it does not pull as hard as it did before. There > are no flat spots as before but the car feels slower. Is my HFM fried? > Do I need a new one? Has this happened to anyone else? > > Ohh yes my best friend just bought a 1998 Vette. From 60 mph in 3rd gear > I will take him till 100 mph and then he blows by me and puts 11/2 car > lengths on my until 120 mph were we both let off. I think I start to > creep on him at 110+ but not sure. 2 week ago my car made 333 HP and 282 > ft/lbs torque at the real wheels. With that much power I should beat a > Vette. SO I ask again, is it my HFM or just my mind? > > Thank You > > Bill P > > _____________________________________________________________ > Who will win the Oscars? Spout off on our Entertainment list! > http://www.topica.com/lists/showbiztalk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 05:09:57 -0800 From: Jim Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique I thought about it a little last night and I can see both sides. Normally more load on the front will give the tires more bite and better turn in. That's why wondered about Rob's statement too. Rob is usually a smart guy (except for being buddies with some of us :P ) so I thought about if there were any exceptions. I still haven't found Skippy's book so I'm drawing on my own bad driving here but I did remember an exception. You can get to a point where you either practically or literally load your suspension until it bottoms out. When this happens you will likely enter an understeer skid. Giving the car a little throttle a that point could return some control. But its got to be just a touch. I'm sure there are other examples, but I gotta run to setup an autocross this morning. Time to scoot. I'll talk to the instructors this morning about it too. Jim John Cash wrote: > > At 12:21 AM 2/19/00 , you wrote: > >Yes - but too much weight on the front equals plow. Gotta unload them a > >little. > > This makes no sense to me. > If I am wrong, could somebody please explain it to me? > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:19:17 -0500 From: "Duane Collie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Chip's Rant >There are several suppliers that understand customer >service, Circle Tire, Eurosport, Active Autowerk, >Zionsville Motorsport, Turner Motorsport, T.C. Kline, >Midwest Motorsport, and UUC Motorwerks are the first >few that come to mind. Sometimes the best price isn't the best deal. HERE !! HERE !!! Chip scores a bulls-eye. That's about the same list I have (plus Steve D'G @ The Ultimate Garage). All of these vendors to the Bimwad will support their products, give you a FAIR price, and help you out if you get jammed up. Plus, if we don't support them, they won't be able to stay in the business. Pretty much as in all things, you get what you pay for. - - Duane Collie The Seven Sled <just got new brake parts from Steve D'G ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:22:13 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique There are many factors that influence vehicle handling, brake proportion, weight, weight distribution, limited slip %, roll center, tire characteristics (the most important factor), etc. The best discussion I've seen is in Paul Van Valkenburg's Race Car Engineering and Mechanics Chapter 7. Some cars power understeer, some power oversteer, some turn in better under trail braking, some do not. The listers here are describing their own experience as "The way to drive". These are all single points on a complex curve and by themselves offer little help into the subject of handling. There are comprehensive formulae that take many factors into account and can predict the handling in a given circumstance. A good driver will adapt to his car, its setup, and the track configuration to produce the lowest lap time. Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:37:30 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] OBC answers I asked about the vent timer/stopwatch function on my OBC. I received several helpful answers. Most answers stated the car has either one of the other. One answer indicated that by removing the vent blower relay, the system will revert to the stopwatch function. Another indicated he has switched back and forth in an apparent random manner but can't duplicate it intentionally. I guess I will try to find the relay and see what happens. Thanks for the answers! Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:33:46 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] gloves/wheels I have a 98 M3/4 w/about 12,500 miles, bot 2/99. Lately I had noticed a rough spot on the steering wheel at the 9 o'clock position, not much but something that cld be felt, and felt not right. Bought some driving gloves from Griot: knitted back, leather palms w/ridges. (well remember the S Moss ones wchamois palms bot frm the MG Mtten 40 yrs ago, you cld wash them in the shower!) Drove from Charlottesville to Spartanburg (yes, the factory and Performance Center well worth the effort and $$). Then on to FL. Back roads (25, 121, 221), straight, flat, little or no traffic: good opportunity to hit the rev limiter. Stopped for lunch at Blackshear GA. After lunch, w/out gloves, felt extraordinary roughness on wheel at 9 o,clock and very slightly at 3 o,clock. Had used the gloves for the previous 4 months w/no problems. Conclusion: long driving stint, with little wheel movement, w/gloves, distorted the wheel covering. Wondered what kind of response I wld get w/warranty etc. As chance wld have it, when I returned, notice of side airbag recall and went to dealer yesterday for fix. In passing, I asked that he look at the wheel, and remarked it appeared that the driving gloves had distorted the covering. Dealer came back, said air bag update in about 30 minutes, and that new wheel wld be here next week w/such alacrity that I wonder if my problem might be wider spread. Any experience/comments? Tia carl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:50:11 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Valve Adjustment Chaos Continued Hey, Me again, the "valve adjusting moron". Taking on the task for the first time late at night when You are tired is not a good idea. I realized that I had the cam lobe facing up on the number one cylinder when I undid the bolt so the eccentric swung back towards the cam (towards the center if I am wrong in my assumptions). I tightened down the bolt and just went to bed. Now I know the errors in my way and need to fix it. My question, if I use my nifty remote start switch to turn the cam lobe down (the way it should be), can I then loosen the 10mm nut and turn the eccentric by hand until I can see the hole?? Is there going to be any damage associated with my incompetence?? Is there another way to fix this before I turn the engine over without doing any damage?? Should I just scrap the job and leave it for the big boys?? Again, cam lobe DOWN, loosen 10 mm bolt, adjust to .010 mm for my M20, then do the exhaust, turn cam to the next one, repeat for all 6 cylinders, recheck ! ! all clearances and reassemble. Is this correct?? Sorry about the last message as I was delerious. Thanks in advance. Best, Rory '90 525i -- Hoping to have the valves done tonight ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:02:32 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: turn in Rob writes: << Lightening the load on the front end lets the front tires do their steering job better instead of just plowing. >> Hmm.. this one sounds weird.. my assumption always was that a lightened front end will NOT cause the front tires to do their job, because the weight is transferred to the rear of the car (hence the front tires don't have as much traction as the fronts) - This is what I assumed caused Understeer. - -Ted '99 323i/4 '87 325i/4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:03:53 -0500 (EST) From: Moe Drippins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique Rob Levinson - UUC Motorwerks writes: > Applying the throttle transfers weight to the rear wheels, away from > the front wheels. Lightening the load on the front end lets the > front tires do their steering job better instead of just plowing. These *WORDS* make sense, but my feeble newbie brain is still stuck on the idea of taking weight off the fronts helping them steer rather than plow. Can someone explain this to me? - -- Just Moe '95 540 6 speed, BL/SS BMWCCA Peachtree Chapter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:06:23 -0500 (EST) From: Moe Drippins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique John Cash writes: > At 12:21 AM 2/19/00 , you wrote: > >Yes - but too much weight on the front equals plow. Gotta unload them a > >little. > > This makes no sense to me. Glad I'm not the only one. =) I don't doubt Matthew Yips nor Robs racing experience, but I still cant wrap my brain around this one. Hope I don't wrap my car around something because of it. - -- Just Moe '95 540 6 speed, BL/SS BMWCCA Peachtree Chapter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:10:38 -0500 (EST) From: Moe Drippins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Heel and toeing ... in an automatic Timothy Taylor writes: > Now, a serious question. Is it worth attending a driver's school in > an automatic equipped car? I can't imagine that it would really > matter...the whole idea is to learn how to drive YOUR car fast and > safe. Right? But I'm thin skinned and might break out into tears if > someone criticized my car. NOT! I've only been to one, but easily half of the non-race-equipped cars in the one I went to were autos, and everyone I talked to got a lot out of the school. Also, my shifting technique was so poor as to be no better than using an auto (probably worse), and *I* got a lot out of it. So I'd say, yes, it's worth it. - -- Just Moe '95 540 6 speed, BL/SS BMWCCA Peachtree Chapter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:16:58 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Yip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Turn-in technique Oops - wrote that a bit too late at night - should read "anything else results in massive OVERSTEER". Throttle application will help balance the chassis to keep the car in a neutral to minimal understeer condition. - --- Moe Drippins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Matthew Yip writes: > > > Turn 1 @ Slummit Point is a prime example for turn-in under > > acceleration. Anything else results in massive understeer. > > I don't know that track (and hence, that turn), but you've lost me > here. How would acceleration at turn in *help* in an understeer > situation? > > -- > Just Moe > '95 540 6 speed, BL/SS > BMWCCA Peachtree Chapter > ===== Matthew Yip [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/mgyip/ '87 GTi 16v - x2 '88 M5 '99 F350 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #295 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. 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