[uucdigest] Wednesday, February 23 2000 Volume 03 : Number 321 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Visit http://www.bubbaclub.com | www.bimmers.com - "serving enthusiasts on the 'net" | Visit http://www.bimmer.org - ultimate BMW bulletin boards! | Subscribe to the Zionsville Autosport Parts Digest: | http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/majordomo.htm ����������������������������������������� In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] <E30 M3> E30M3 versus S2000 with a 5500 RPM shift point Re: [uuc] Alignment shop in central Jersey Re: [uuc] BMW NA's Response to "BMW Individual -AvailableorNo? [uuc] Re: Fiery crash at Daytona [uuc] Xpel/3M protective film install in Orlando Re: [uuc] Custom Orders Re: [uuc] FW: E46 M3 Re: [uuc] FW: E46 M3 Re: [uuc] BMW NA's Response to "BMW Individual - Available or No?" [uuc] Re: BMW NA's Response to "BMW Individual - Available orNo?" Re: [uuc] <E30 M3> E30M3 versus S2000 with a 5500 RPM shift point [uuc] April 2000 European Car Re: [uuc] E46 M3 red bits [uuc] Re: Need to know the street value of a E30 325iS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:20:28 +0100 From: Eric Raquette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E30 M3> E30M3 versus S2000 with a 5500 RPM shift point > Using a 2500 RPM launch and a 5500 RPM limit (tough to hit precisely in first > gear) it can do 8 to 8.4 seconds zero to sixty. Hmm the dead below 4000 M3 > came off quite a bit better in this casual test than the S2000. Decent > acceleration and less of a percentage drop off compared to max rev tests. > Questions? Comments? Smart remarks? > > Stan Yes, you should of course have used the same percentage of max revs as the S2000 for your shift point. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Guillermo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Alignment shop in central Jersey - --- "Thomas J. Noto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey guys, > > Can someone please recommend a good alignment shop in the Trenton/Princeton > area of NJ? My '95 325is is starting to pull to the right, and I'm averse > to spending dealer levels of money if there is an alternative.... > > Thanks, > > Tom Hi Tom, I brought my bimmer to this shop that Rob L. have recommended on the list a long time ago. His shop was not around my neighborhood but I went there anyway. The owner, Jake, is very accomodating. And let me tell you this secret, mention that you learned about his shop from Rob and he'll even be more accomodating. This came from Rob's old post; Freedman Tire 1690 Route 27 Edison, NJ 732-985-2211 Ask for Jake, he's the owner. He can offer competitive pricing and first-class service. For any concerns about large-diameter wheels, they use a Hunter TC-350. Regards, ===== Jay '93 325i BMW CCA NJ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:28:59 -0500 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] BMW NA's Response to "BMW Individual -AvailableorNo? Phil Marx wrote: > ben keyes wrote: > >as a data point on the possibility of this, Jon Maddux (of Leather Z3 > <snip> see other note for details on Jon's situation. > >I do know that you can get non-US market colors (steel/gun metal grey is my > >favorite) for Z3's at a cost of $1,500, which is almost entirely pure > >profit since the paint is already in the plant system & there is going to > >be minimal cost for extra handling/sequencing of the bumpers in the plant. > > Somewhat true, but consider that the console pieces and placement of some > controls differ between the two different coupes, as do some body panels, > bumpers, etc. Since BMW receives these parts pre-made from their > suppliers, including the leather covering, "sequencing" in a different dash > or console panel in leather from another model may not be as easy as you > think. There may be no part number for such a part, and the inventorying > of a new number for this arrangement must be a pain. I'm not familiar with the way that BMW numbers parts & assemblies as shipped to thier plants, but Ford uses a "feature based" release system where the nearly complete I/P is shipped into the plant in sequence. the I/P is a collection of parts that are selected based on the "feature" they represent. this allows you to mix & match pieces to make the paritcular I/P that you want, so long as logical rules are followed. I would assume that BMW does something similar, so that as long as the particular pieces are available, then the rules have to be amended to make the desired combination possible. witness the example of headlight washers/aimers that JonM was told he could have on an M coupe. > Likewise, the bumpers come painted from the supplier, and an M bumper in a > 2.8 color is also not > a stock item or an available part without special hoops and arrangements being > made. assuming the bumpers are sequenced coming into the plant, the shipping racks are designed to accomodate the various types, the bumpers are all made by the same supplier & are made out of the same materials, then making them in any color that is normally available would not be an issue. > . It's not always as easy as it seems. I know this all too well, having worked in an assembly plant (Louisville Assembly - makes Explorer/Mountaineer) for 4� years. sometimes you just can't do stuff because it's too much of a hassle. I agree with Jim P in that at the high end of the market, the customer expectes to be able to pick & choose what they want and not have to get gouged for it. Ben Keyes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:30:14 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: Fiery crash at Daytona In a message dated 2/23/00 11:41:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The crash at the Daytona 500 was not as spectacular but Dale Jarrett pass to win the race at the end was a thing of beauty. Now I've not been a Nascar fan. But I will be watching more of this stuff from the safety of my living room. Henry 325i >> Imagine what the 500 would be like with no restrictor plates. NASCAR is kind of fixed and they do all sorts of things to make everyone equal but it is a great show and it's very profitable for all involved. The drivers are fantastic. Fred Callender RMC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:32:22 -0500 From: "ivanj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Xpel/3M protective film install in Orlando Just traded my M3 in on a 00 Black 528i. Looking to protect the paint form chips etc. Can anyone recommend an installer of the XPEL/3M protective film in the Orlando Florida area. Thought about doing it myself but it looks a bit tough. Thanks in advance Ivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS. My M3 was supposedly shipped to Connecticut. If anyone is looking at a used 96 M3 Red with 102K miles in that area and wants maintenance records etc about the car feel free to contact me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:46:50 -0500 From: Chaz Yoon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Custom Orders That's not true. It's lagging slightly behind the U.S., but it's coming along very, very nicely. Asia as a whole is expected to experience unprecedented online growth through the next few years as infrastructure improves, especially in China, according to Forrester Research. Their demand for e-commerce will certain increase as more homes receive Internet connections and delivery services, like FedEx improve their ability to deliver quickly and accurately. You could say the same thing about American culture when you see the number of people still in the malls. Chaz On Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 11:12:52AM -0800, Chester Wong wrote: > Too bad the Japanese culture really doesn't embrace internet purchases. They > still prefer to browse and window shop. Go figure. > > Chester - -- Chaz Yoon http://christabel.mit.edu/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:51:07 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] FW: E46 M3 I woudn't be surprised if the new E46 M3 is priced $60k after options. If you think about it, people paid $50k for the E36 M3 after options. Joe Tan. - -------------- If BMWNA really charges $55-60K for this car I gotta believe that the S4 will become REAL attractive to a whole lot of buyers. $60K for a 3 series, come on... Tim T __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:53:11 -0800 From: Jim Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] FW: E46 M3 Who? Joe say its not you :) Jim Joe Tan wrote: > > I woudn't be surprised if the new E46 M3 is priced > $60k after options. If you think about it, people paid > $50k for the E36 M3 after options. > > Joe Tan. > -------------- > If BMWNA really charges $55-60K for this car I gotta > believe that the > S4 > will become REAL attractive to a whole lot of buyers. > $60K for a 3 > series, > come on... > > Tim T > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:56:57 +0100 (MET) From: John Firestone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] BMW NA's Response to "BMW Individual - Available or No?" On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Phil Marx wrote: > There effectively is only limited individual order availability for the US. > It is more a problem with BMW NA than with your dealers. And NA doesn't > even give the dealers the same info they apparently give the customers. I think someone researching corporate cultures would enjoy studying BMW NA. On my car, which became a special or individual order, the situation was largely as Phil describes. Neither my dealer nor his regional manager was a problem, both quickly agreed to the order, nor was Munich, who gave their approval and a production slot within a week. The problem was within BMW NA, but not with the group as a whole, rather with one particular person. In the end, this person was persuaded by the patient and persistent pressure of my dealer, with the support of the rest of BMW NA and BMW waiting to execute the order. I did wonder a little about turning sales pressure normally directed to the customer, inward on BMW NA. But, not all that much. One of their dealerships sold another car and they gained a happy customer. I think they just chose to do things a slightly harder way. Well, whatever makes them happy is fine by me. - -John '96 318is - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:11:35 -0800 From: John Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: BMW NA's Response to "BMW Individual - Available orNo?" > Shipping? If you're talking a car which has to come from Germany or > Japan (not the US factories of each manufacturer) - how exactly would > you handle the shipping so the customer received the car in a reasonable > length of time? That's a known and easily-characterized interval - approx 8 weeks - and is true for any special-order, not just Individual program. > Prepayment? How many people in the USA are willing to fully prepay for > a car that they haven't even seen? This is perhaps the issue - people ordering what sounds like a great combination, and they hate it when they see it in person. At least if it's a standard combination the car will be saleable to someone else. Nonetheless, if you special-order a car the dealer may well want payment up front, and Euro delivery cars, at least, have to be paid in full up-front when production is scheduled. And I've had no problem with that. > 1. You paid full ticket up front and ahead of any production date > 2. You were willing to wait - perhaps 1-6 months for delivery of > your pre-paid-for vehicle, due to production and shipping time. Like I said, these are true of any vehicle you don't buy off the lot. Personally, I don't need/want most of the more individual Individual offerings, but I would like to be able to mix and match paint and trim colors differently, and I would happily sign up for a 'you pay for it, we build it, it's yours, and no whining' approach. John. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:15:08 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] <E30 M3> E30M3 versus S2000 with a 5500 RPM shift point In a message dated 2/23/00 2:22:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Yes, you should of course have used the same percentage of max revs as the S2000 for your shift point. >> I understand your point. It is hard to make such a comparison fairly. For one thing engines drop off in torque past peak power differently from each other. There are other factors such as gearing. Let's see... Using 5500/9000 = 61% for the Honda leads to 4422 RPM for the stock M3 or 4636 for the Dinan chip or 5000 for the ERT chip. My car has the Dinan and other previously listed mods. If we used, say about 4500 RPM the M3 would need an extra shift into fourth (compared to using third alone) and would spend roughly the last 10 + MPH (from 50 to 60) in 4th gear. That is where it lose a bunch of time compared to using three gears and 5000 - 5500. Summarizing here are three tests: 1) 5500 RPM which needs three gears and uses more of the M3s power band than for the S2000. 8 - 8.4 seconds 2) 5000 RPM which needs three gears if you allow 5300 for the top of third to avod a shift to 4th. 9.1 -9.4 seconds. 3) 4500 RPM which needs 4 gears instead of 3 and is in 4th for about the last 10 mph. 11.7-12.2. Possibly a little better possible as I had slow shifts to third compared to before...maybe the earlier higher revs helped me shift or I was just clutzy here. It looks like in every case the early M3 keeps relatively more of it's acceleration when not revved than does the Honda. Comparing unrestricted versus restricted times. I'm not positive about the S2000's gear ratios but I think it's a six speed (another variable) and is likely geared very differently. Maybe it can reach 60 in third using a 5500 RPM shift point. Thats an important point. There are too many variables for a test like this to be crytal clear. So this is just an anecdotal thing. I usually look into flexibility using other approaches than this type. There are better methods. But I was prompted to try this out after reading about the Honda. Such as test takes just seconds if you have the inclination and test tools. Stan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:29:40 -0800 (PST) From: Alexander MacLeod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] April 2000 European Car Hi All, I think that EC is slipping a bit here. Did anybody see the cover of the April issue yet? It has an buyer's guide on all the different 3 Series BMWs; the E25 (?), E30, and E36. They managed to get it right in the actual article, but I bet they'll hear about the cover <g> Alex MacLeod (would never confuse an E21 for an E25) '87 325 (E30) NY Chapter CCA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:09:05 -0500 From: "Grant Low" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E46 M3 red bits Andy T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Subject: [uuc] E46 M3 red bits > On my trusty old IBM 380 with its 10" screen it looks like the warpaint > start at around '8'. The temperature-dependent redline used on the M5 seems > to have made an appearance, starting at 5,000; it looks like it runs to > 8,000 then red from then on. I vaguely remember that the redline of the new > motor was quoted as 8,000 rpm in the UK press some time ago (where the > limiter is is anybody's guess; the current 321 bhp motor cuts out at > something like 7,700 rpm, the usual 300 rpm north of the factory redline, if > that's a guide). Looks like it starts at 8 to me too, on a 1280x1024 17" screen :) Makes my eta engine's 5k redline look really pitiful.. Now, if I'm remembering correctly, this engine will also be put into the M Coupe and M Roadster right? with 340hp and a more rev-happy engine, the roadster should put up an even better fight against the S2000 :) The torque will be there really fast, and my bet is that little roadster will fly!! Grant - only wishes for an M Roadster, even now... 87 325 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:10:14 -0800 From: "Jonathan Reiser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Need to know the street value of a E30 325iS I WROTE THIS: > > I wanted to know if this is about what they are worth. I looked > > them up on autotrader.com and they seem to be going for the $9,000 range. > > I am concered about it's actual value because I would only purchase > > it to take it off her hands and would probably just turn around and > > sell it again. I want to make sure I won't take a loss on it. AND ALEX WROTE THIS: > > Jon, > No offense, but you are basically asking us by how wide a margin you can > screw your friend??! > > alex f Huh? How do you get that I am trying to screw my friend out of this? I am simply trying to identify what the true value of this car is so I don't take a LOSS. I have no intention of taking a profit on the car. If I pay 6k, I want to be able to sell the thing for 6k. That's all. I have seen them in the trader 9k, but I have also seen similar year, model amd mileage cars for 5k.... Used E30s seem to be a very odd bunch of cars when it comes to pricing. The 9k cars are through dealers and obviously, the 5k cars are private sale. Once again, this person is moving, with very little notice, out of the country and simply asked me to buy it as a favor. The reality is, unless it was an E30 M3, I have no interest in the car long term and I have even less interest in selling the thing for less than I paid. Jon ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #321 ************************** _________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | Bonneville Motorwerks . http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com | Circle Tire Co. (used & classic BMW parts) e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Curry's Auto Service . http://www.currysauto.com | Eurosport . http://www.eurosport-hp.com | Koala MotorSport . http://www.koalamotorsport.com | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | The Ultimate Garage . http://www.ultimategarage.com | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com | Zionsville Autosport . http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com ����������������������������������������
