[uucdigest]          Thursday, March 16 2000          Volume 03 : Number 454



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In this BMW UUC Digest:

       RE: [uuc] Z8 goes for 70K over MSRP
       [uuc] Re: <E30> Shocking Suspension Questions
       Re: [uuc] Garage Floor Paint?
       [uuc] RE: E30 sway bars
       [uuc] RE: not fog lights but windows switch lights
       [uuc] Re: Garage Floor Paint?
       [uuc] Exhaust Options '84 733i
       [uuc] more on the Rover sell-off
       [uuc] Re: duPont Registry <WOB>
       [uuc] <E30> OEM Exhaust Installed.
       [uuc] <E30> Faulty Center Bearing Detected.  Symptoms.
       [uuc] <E30> NAPA Rotors.  Comments.
       [uuc] Re: Compact Axed As BMW Readies New Z2 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:06:55 -0800
From: "Stremel, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [uuc] Z8 goes for 70K over MSRP

It's all about money. My god, buy the damn car and enjoy it!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:28 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:      [uuc] Z8 goes for 70K over MSRP
> 
> Did anyone catch the sale on eBay for the Z8?  
> <A
> HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=273416926">ht
> t
> p://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=273416926</A>
> I believe the person had a buyer's order and ended up "selling" the order
> to 
> someone else to take over.  Was watching that auction myself, since I also
> 
> have a signed buyer's order for a Z8, and was thinking that if the demand
> was 
> great enough that I might go ahead and put mine for sale too.  
> 
> (I know this is openning up for a potentially long thread, but what the 
> heck...)
> 
> What are thoughts of the above?  
> 
> Thanks,
> Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:24:54 -0800
From: "Scott D Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] Re: <E30> Shocking Suspension Questions

Randy, always eager to contribute to the E30 discussions, said:

> Scott,  i've run the E30 M3 springs temporarily on my 89 325is with
>Bilstein Sports,  and i can say with confidence to use the longer
>Heavy Duty's instead if you intend to run the M3 springs forever
>and have no intention of eventually upgrading to aftermarket
>Lowering Springs later on down the road.
<snip>

> The M3 springs will only lower your 325i about a half inch all around,
>(maybe slightly more in front) and that's not enough of a drop to justify the
>Sports.  They should really be used when you go beyond, say, a one-inch
>drop and i don't suggest them for use with M3 springs.   During some
>autocross runs,  it was reported by my VW friends and a few course
>workers that my Bimmer was pulling the inside rear tire off the ground
<snip>

This is a fascinating topic:  How much will my car be lowered?  I've had replies
from several people who have put the stock M3 springs on their non-M E30s, and
the results run from a half inch drop to 1.2 inches.  My guess is that it all
depends on which original springs the car had (E30s have had several springs
over the years), the condition of the original springs and the condition of the
M3 springs used to replace them.

Since my goal is to lower the car no more than an inch, I think the M3 springs
will be just fine.  While I do autocross (well, duh!), mostly I drive the car on
the street, and I like the ride with the "is" suspension.   I also like the way
the stock M3 rides.  This sounds like the perfect compromise for me.  So the M3
springs are now sitting in a box in my garage waiting for me to have a free
weekend to do the swap.

Then there is the question of shocks/struts:  Keep my Bilstein HDs or spend
money (gasp!) and switch to Sports?  I've read enough from the various people
who have replied to my questions that I have decided to keep the HDs.

I also have the offset upper strut bearings set for 0.5 deg more neg camber and
the M3 lower control arm bushings, and it sounds like I should keep that
configuration.  I want to have no more than neg 2 deg front camber when I'm
done.

I will also eventually switch to aftermarket sway bars.  As Eric and others have
pointed out, the M3 front sway bar mounts differently and would not really an
upgrade, even if I could force it to work with the standard non-M E30 attachment
points.

> If you're curious about ride height changes,  my PhotoPoint BMW Album
>has captioned pics of the car on various springs (Stock, M3, H&R, & GC :-)
>
>Randy Walters
>89 325is DSP
>85 GTi FSP
>http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=153582&a=1200064

Thanks Randy, I did look at the pictures, and the showed about what I expected.
BTW, it looks like you spend some time in my old neighborhood.  I grew up in
Westchester (CA) and hung out at Playa del Rey a lot.  I remember when Marina
del Rey was a swamp.  Oh, I guess today they call that "wetlands".  Whatever.
And I used to take bike rides all over Palos Verdes in the summer.  All those
places are in your pictures.

The only remaining questions (if anyone is even still reading this) are:

1.  I know there are sometimes different thicknesses of rubber spring perch
pads, should I get new ones, and if so, what are the arguments for the different
thicknesses?

2.  What other parts should I be replacing or considering while I'm replacing
the springs?

Thanks to Randy, Eric, Neil, Kurt, Matt, Carter, Alex and especially Steve (they
were his springs) for all the assistance on this.

Scott Miller
GGC BMW CCA #44977
1990 325i w/ "is" and "M" stuff on it

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:31:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Barry J. Bocaner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [uuc] Garage Floor Paint?

On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Hassan Hassan wrote:
> I just purchased a house which is based on a Frank Lloyd Wright design.  One 
> of the amazing features of the house is the garage.  The previous owner 
> collected cars.  What seems like a normal 2 car garage from the outside 

You lucky dog!!  I *adore* Frank Lloyd Wright.  Is it a classic prairie
style house like the robie house or is it one of the more flowing
hemicircle type designs?  The best thing about his architecture is the
interior space... it just works the way people live!!  I wish more new
houses were built with this kind of interior floorplan.  Congrats!!

- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Barry J. Bocaner   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://web.bocaner.net
- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:42:48 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uuc] RE: E30 sway bars

Hello BMW Experts!  Scott asked:
>Now, everyone says the front attachment
>point is different for an M3 than on a plain 325i, but Steve thinks the
bars >are
>pretty much the same shape, and that the difference is in the end links.
>Anyone
>know for sure?
     The front bar on the E30 M3 is smaller than the bar on the "is", but
is stiffer because the mount is on the strut housing, not the control arm.
Also, the "lever arm" portion of the M3 bar is longer, making it in effect
softer.  I had the "is" bars in my car connected to the strut housing, but
it seemed too stiff for the rest of my set up.  YMMV!  The end links are
different because the M3 links need to be longer to go way up the strut
housing.
     Be aware that the strut housing diameter for E30s can either the big
or small size on the "is" model.  My car is an '87, and has the small
diameter housing.  Consistency has not always been a BMW hallmark.
                                         Murf


"WorldSecure Server <ogilvy.com>" made the following
 annotations on 03/16/00 12:33:23
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==============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:43:27 -0500
From: "Fadeev, Alex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] RE: not fog lights but windows switch lights

richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asks:
> 
> windon switch lights can they be replaced...if yes, 
> 
> how???with what blub???

Richard,
Assuming E30, the dealer sells the same 1.2W Osram bulbs for $1.00 (give or
take a penny). However, they will refuse to admit that these bulbs fit into
all electrical switches in the car. Radio shack has the same wattage bulbs
for around $2.50.
I haven't taken apart any E36 switches yet, but suspect they use similar
bulbs.

alex f  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:47:10 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uuc] Re: Garage Floor Paint?

I just moved into my new house and also wanted something to protect the bare
concrete
garage floor.  Steve D's site basically says an epoxy based floor paint is the
best way to go.

I called some local industrial type outfits with my request and found out they
only care about
painting 10,000 sq. ft. warehouses and stuff.  A 400 sq. ft. garage just isn't
their bag.
Surfing around on the internet I found a product made by Devcon (who supplies
the
big industrial outfits mentioned above with their supplies) made specifically
for home use.

It comes in a 5-gallon bucket with surface preparation materials including a
cleaner/degreaser,
surface etcher, and epoxy coating.  It also contains a grit, that when mixed
with the epoxy,
provides better traction (for those cool power launches out of the garage :).
It even comes
with a power mixing tool for use on an electric drill.  The kit covers 225 sq.
ft.

Finding a supplier was a bit tough, nobody local sold it.  But an email to
Devcon produced
a supplier in Chicago who ships anywhere in the continental US.

B.E. Atlas  1-800-305-4393.  Ask for Dennis

When I ordered mine, he said that Devcon no longer made this product and the
warehouse had about 50 left.  I got two for $62.50 each.

I have yet to get a full free weekend to move the whole garage into the front
yard
and actually apply the stuff.

Good Luck,
Matt Tremmel
'94 325is


> If anyone can share their opinions and experiences relating to powerwashing
the
>garage and what type of paint works  best and lasts long, please let me know.
Sadly,
>I had to sell my `99 M3/2  to buy the house but with a garage like that, I can
dream of
>what to fill it  up with ;)

>Respectfully,

>Hassan
>Saint Louis Chapter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:52:31 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uuc] Exhaust Options '84 733i

Patrick,

Been there, done that on a '82 733i.  My clear choice would be for the Bosal one piece 
exhaust.  In my experience it outlasted  lasted the ANSA that preceded it and was much 
easire to install.  The problem with the ANSA (at least in my case) was the welding.  
The exhaust system rusts twice as fast at the weld.  If the ANSA exhaust you are 
looking at is clamped the two system are probably comparable.  I say probably because 
if memory serves correct, the Bosal was made from heavier material.

For comparison purposes: the original system lasted approximately 100K miles, the ANSA 
approx. 50K (rusted at the weld), the Bosal 50K+ and was still on the car and in good 
shape when the the car was sold.

Regarding noise: both systems were louder that the OEM exhaust.  The loudest of the 
two was the ANSA, but the Bosal wasn't far behind.

One final comment.  Back in my M-B days, they also used welded exhaust systems, I used 
to braze the exhaust system together instead of weld it.  The brazed joints did not 
rust out as fast as the welded ones.  I stopped doing this when a Pennsylvania State 
Inspection Station �flunked� my car because the exhaust was not welded as required.

Hope this helps.

REGARDS,

Ron Brown
'93 740il

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:04:09 -0500
From: Patrick Finn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] Exhaust Options

I suppose that this may start some controversy, but here goes.  I need to
replace my exhaust from the cat-back on my '84 733i.  The choices I am
considering are a 1-piece Bosal System for around $230 from Olympic Parts
Co., a 2-piece (resonator and rear muffler) system from ANSA for $235 from
Vertex Automotive, or an "OEM" system supposedly made by either ANSA or Bosal
from Bavarian Autosport for $245.
    Obviously the price differences between these systems isn't significant,
so what are people's general opinions of the performance, longevity, and
sound of these systems as applied to a big six??

Thanks,
Patrick Finn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:57:59 -0500
From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] more on the Rover sell-off

check out this article :

http://www.msnbc.com/news/382429.asp

note the $3.1 billion charge against 1999 books !



Ben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:03:46 -0800
From: "Scott D Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] Re: duPont Registry <WOB>

This nearly had me in stitches!

>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:19:57 -0500
>From: "Eric Augustyn (Derivatives)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [uuc] duPont Registry <WOB>
>
>Was surfin the web and found this beauty!
>
>2000 BMW 540i.
>
>Once again, you can enjoy the fruits of my labor on this truly marvelous
>vehicle. What started as a 2000 540i has now become a fully customized
>automatic M5.
<snip>
>A Supersprint exhaust improves sound, but also added over 50 hp
>and 60 ft./lbs. of torque, giving it a total output of over 350 hp and 385
>ft./lbs.! That's M5 speed with an automatic!
<snip>
>  This car has had over
>$45,000 invested into it and is truly a one-of-a-kind masterpiece. Asking
>$100,000. For pictures and details, check out my web site at
>www.dwiggs.homestead.com

If there was something in there about a supercharger or turbocharger or nifty
engine improvements, I musta missed it.  No wait, I just went back and re-read
it, and the only "power" mod mentioned was the exhaust system.  Added over 50
hp, imagine that!  This guy is either trying to pull a fast one on someone, or
someone pulled a fast one on him and he bought it!

If only it were that easy.  <sigh>

Scott Miller
GGC BMW CCA #44977
1990 325i - gotta go buy my 40 HP muffler tomorrow!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:20:30 -0500
From: "Neil Deshpande" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] <E30> OEM Exhaust Installed.

I bought a 5k mile no-salt no-snow exhaust off a Lister for my 1988 325 iS.  The 
install went smoothly.  See random comments below:

1. The bolts had to be cut off with a death wheel.  The flanges were rusted a lot 
(190k miles) and I replaced the driver's side one.  The passenger's side flange cannot 
be removed.  The muffler side flanges came with the exhaust and were newish.

2. The hangers were replaced.  The new donuts were considerably stiffer than the old 
ones.  I used hardened steel bolts for the flanges.

3. Fit was excellent.  The Al heat shield over the converter was easy to clean.  The 
iron ones were pitted too much.

4. For some reason the hanger kit does not come with new bolts for the flanges.  Don't 
forget to order these!

Neil Deshpande
1988 325 iS - new exhaust
1989 325 iC - new exhaust soon

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:23:46 -0500
From: "Neil Deshpande" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] <E30> Faulty Center Bearing Detected.  Symptoms.

My 1988 iS has a shudder at 18 mph in any gear.

When I dropped the exhaust to replace the cat-back section, I took down the heat 
shields and too a look at the driveshaft u-joints and center bearing.

The center bearing rubber sleeve was almost shredded.  The 18 mph shudder is the only 
obvious symptom of this I have noticed.  There are no abnormal vibrations up to 90 
mph, though I spent about 2 seconds at that speed.

Neil Deshpande
1988 325 iS
1989 325 iC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:26:43 -0500
From: "Neil Deshpande" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] <E30> NAPA Rotors.  Comments.

For various good reasons, I put NAPA rotors on my 1988 325 iS.  This was before I knew 
where the oil filter was and I mis-planned the parts order basically.

Anyway, 50k miles later the NAPA rotors have a huge lip and have to be changed.  The 
car sees only highway miles and Jack Money felt this was excessive rotor wear when 
compared with his Ford Probe.

There are no signs of uneven wear, pitting, warping, etc.  They just seem to last 
less.  They have been run with Pagids.

Needless to say, I will be replacing them with OEM rotors.

Neil Deshpande
1988 325 iS
1989 325 iC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:32:02 -0800 (PST)
From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] Re: Compact Axed As BMW Readies New Z2 

On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Rob Levinson - UUC Motorwerks wrote:

> I just wish BMW would use "adult size" engineers in this project and
> not make it suitable only for sub-5'5" drivers.  Why is it that the
> 7-series can seat a basketball player but the 3-series seems
> designed for big jockeys?  Car budget has nothing to do with driver
> height, there must be some psychological sales effort to make
> potential buyers physically uncomfortable in the thriftier car...

 It seems to me that it's not a matter of budget but of
maneuverability.  Tall guys cannot fit into the 3-series not because
they're less expensive, but because they handle better. (and also
because they MUST come with sunroofs.  EVERYONE knows that NOBODY will
buy a car without a sunroof)  How about the M-coupe or the M-roadster?
Those are more expensive, yet they zig, so no tall guys allowed.  I
bet the Z8 is the same way.
 My theory is that auto designers fly a lot.  They get all their cues
on the average height of the populace by watching the seat spacing on
airplanes.  Now we get some cars with special features to accomodate
the very short, but the tall people can drive around with their crania
sticking out the top of the roof.  fudge 'em.
 When the Z2 arrives, expect to see ads with with the cars driven by
jockeys dressed in tiny little basketball uniforms to give the
illusion of size.

- --
  John Bolhuis  | "In America it is not considered to be mentally ill
 bolhuijo       | when a woman advances on her prey in a discotheque
  @bolhuijo.com | setting with hardy cocktails present."
                |                                      -Madonna

------------------------------

End of [uucdigest] V3 #454
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