[uucdigest]         Thursday, January 9 2003         Volume 03 : Number 6007



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In this BMW UUC Digest:

       Re: [uuc] Alternator placement...
       [uuc] <36> M3 -- Brake Grinding
       Re: [uuc] Nashville or bust ..CCA Members (slightly WOB ?) 
       [uuc] Effects of an aftermarket parts (pistons, cams) on emissions?
       Re:  [uuc] Now alternator placement...was Brian Redman CSL video
       [uuc] RE: January Roundel
       [uuc] January Roundel and Oktoberfest 2002

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:05:14 -0600
From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [uuc] Alternator placement...

Eurowerks wrote:

>How can you say the engine runs it if it is driven by the drivetrain?
>The explanation I think you are going to give is not valid. 
>
Interesting reasoning. Since, the rear wheels are also driven by the 
drivetrain - what's the engine for again?

KMS - Brett Anderson wrote:

>Move the altenator to the rear.
>
>Why?
>
>If it doesn't acheive something, then Trans Am and GT-1 through 5 wouldn't do
>it today.
>
>Reasons?
>
>1. Cooler (already mentioned)
>2. Less direct draw on the crank (discussed, but no concensus reached)
>3. Runs slower (also discussed, but not recognized correctly)
>4. Weight distribution advantage
>  
>
The "talk about it" comment was sarcastic.

This isn't a subject for "consensus" - the first law of thermodynamics 
isn't up for a vote. As I said, running the alternator at slower 
rotational speeds would reduce losses (improve efficiency)  - that's 
fundamentally different than "making more power" as originally stated. 
But that can be achieved by changing the pulley diameter ratio, so alone 
it's no reason to move it to the back.

"Runs slower" not recognized correctly? It was stated explicitly. Points 
2 & 3 aren't distinct - power dissipated is power dissipated; regardless 
of where it occurs, there's less available for locomoting.

Other, better reasons? Sure. The weight distribution advantage was 
already mentioned by an owner. You left that parenthetic comment out.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:53:11 -0500
From: "Tom Newton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] <36> M3 -- Brake Grinding

Hi Folks -

Long time no post...

My '98 M3/4 has 70k on the clock, and the brakes are ready for an
overhaul... I think... because I'm hearing and feeling a decent amount of
rotor or pad roughness when braking. The pads on the car cheap garbage
installed by the first owner (I bought the car certified preowned two years
ago and the dealer confided that the owner had put some wierd low end pad on
it).

Two questions:

Who know's where the definitive E36 M3 brake diagnosis-for-dummies faq is
online ? (I already have the bently manual but I'm looking for more of a
walk through ho-to).

And, if I need to re-do the brakes... should I just (as Mike Miller suggests
in the last roundel) upgrade to euro M3 rotors (cross drilled) and quality
pads? or something else?

My driving style is moderate to active (I have 5 schools under my belt...
but none in the last 4 years), but I don't expect to get much if any track
time anytime soon. Despite that, I would definitely like improve my stopping
power... not at the cost of ridiculous amounts of brake dust mess mind
you... but a reasonable step above the pep-boy garbage I have probably been
putting up with.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Tom Newton
NY Chapter
98 M3 Sharked -w- UUC Short Switchgear & 89 325i

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:58:47 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [uuc] Nashville or bust ..CCA Members (slightly WOB ?) 

Thanks Brett.....  I didn't know how to say that without getting fired up.
Nicely put.

BTW, the date of the meeting is March 8-9 the *SAME* weekend most club
racers will be at either Motorsport ranch, or Road Atlanta - Two BMW CCA
Club races.  So you won't see many/any clubracers there Bill, but thanks for
the cash none-the-less!

Jon
______________________________________________

Jon Siccardi
Treehouse Racing
www.treehouseracing.com
______________________________________________
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [uuc] Nashville or bust ..CCA Members (slightly WOB ?)


> Hey Bill,
>
> Is this you're way of saying you'll run for the board at the next
election?
>
> At least if you were a board member, you could quote facts, instead of
> garbage.
>
> Tell us, what exactly *is* your agenda with this attempt to incite the
masses
> here?
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> BMW Special Tool Rentals
> Pay per incident tech support
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Brett Anderson
> KMS
> (440) 338 1650
> www.koalamotorsport.com
>
> OSS committee member
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BMWBITS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > Reading the BMW..space..CCA Executive Board meeting minutes for their
> > last meeting (Avail on the club's website ) I see that the next mtg is
> > scheduled for Nashville on March 8-9 .
> > The last one of these mtgs I attended (Seattle , Sept 2001 ) was VERY
> > poorly attended by 'the general membership' (AKA The Plebs ) .How'z
> > about we try to create a leetle more interest and attendance at this
> > upcoming one ?..Central location ,Nose-singing Capital of the World
> > ..etc etc ..
> > Remember ...last years BMW  CCA Ofest LOST about $39,000 of members
> > funds ...roughly $40 per attendee ??....and the board gets to vote that
> > away (read the minutes folks !!..particularly the addenda ) and possibly
> > do it again this year in Austin and next year in ...? And give $50,000
> > to the Club racing programme ....(900 registered racers , 400 active
> > ..do the math ..) .What about the other members ?..$39k plus $50k would
> > take a buck off the annual dues for ALL ,then let the Special Interests
> > (whether a racing or a concours  or an M3, 5, 6 or 7-series 'interest
> > group' pay for their interest but under the aegis of the club ).
> > I'm NOT trying to 'raise hell' ..just awareness .....There ARE 'Other
> > Ways' to do things ..
> > See you at the meeting ? (betcha it's a posh hotel !!..guess who pays
> > ...except for YOUR parking !!) .
> >
> > PS YES , I have been a National VP of a different German car club .and
> > we bought our own tickets .
> >
> > PPS with the advent of 'virtual meeting ' technology ..Is it really
> > necessary to get nose-to-nose 4 times a year?. I've seen mega-million $
> > contracts done on video for 10 yrs or more .
> >
> > Comments off-digest please ...or at the meeting ??
> >
> > Bill & Shirley Proud,
> > Tennessee..wintertime!, Seattle..summertime .
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:42:46 -0800
From: "JS Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] Effects of an aftermarket parts (pistons, cams) on emissions?

I'm contemplating a rebuild of my M30 engine in my 90 535i.

I'd like to assess my risk of passing the local emissions tests (Seattle
Metro area) based in possible modifications to the motor including cam and
piston changes.

 Does anyone have a good suggestion on how to assess the emissions different
mods will produce?

 TIA!

 Jeff
 90 535i

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 01:42:06 -0500
From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re:  [uuc] Now alternator placement...was Brian Redman CSL video

think of it this way. running through first gear, instead of accelerating
the alternator from 1000 to 8000 rpm, you accelerate it from 0 to 200.
see where this is going?

- -Michael McCoy

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "JSN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:39 PM
Subject: [uuc] Now alternator placement...was Brian Redman CSL video


> Micheal,
>
> Can you explain how changing the location effects the power taken to run
the
> alternator?   Does this have to do with the PTO now being behind the
gearbox
> (eg - gearing)?
>
> thx!
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [uuc] Brian Redman CSL video
>
>
> > From: "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > Bob says >
> > > > http://www.endorphin.com/wheels/bmw_csl.html
> > >
> > > I just got around to watching this.  Well worth the price of
admission.
> > Love the racing and the car.
> > >
> > > Check out the size of those Ate brakes...hmm...will these fit on my
E36
> M3
> > :-)
> > >
> > > Also, is the alternator in the trunk? and does it run off of the final
> > drive as opposed to directly to the motor? I would imagine this was done
> for
> > weight distribution purposes as opposed to packaging constraints in the
> > engine bay?
> > >
> >
> > alternator is probably off the rear drive shaft. This is common on race
> cars
> > as it then takes less power from the engine. not really a packging issue
> to
> > have it in the engine bay, but when directly on the engine, it takes
more
> > engine HP to turn it.
> >
> > -Michael McCoy
> >

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:11:36 -0500
From: "Lowe, Daniel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [uuc] RE: January Roundel

I just received my January Roundel in the mail yesterday.  I usually get
mine about 3 days before the month of issue.  One advantage of living
within about 60 miles of the printer.  The rest of you should start
seeing your copies soon.  Don't forget to vote early, vote often.  The
inclusion of the ballots may have slowed the process some.

Regards,
Dan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:57:12 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uuc] January Roundel and Oktoberfest 2002

With the tragic passing of the club's President, I must say I feel terribly 
disrespectful even attempting this posting today, since in light of his death 
it all seems so damned petty, but...

The January Roundel just mailed out January 3rd - holiday delays pushing 
production back a bit at the printer. You should all see yours before the 
21st (remember no postal service on the 20th). As always, if your issue goes 
missing (and not because you moved and forgot to tell us <G>) we'll gladly 
replace it.


With respect to Oktoberfest 2002 - I have had a number of emails over the 
past 24-hours concerning Bill Proud's assertion:

"Remember ... last years BMW CCA Ofest LOST about $39,000 of members funds
...roughly $40 per attendee ??....and the board gets to vote that away
(read  the minutes folks !!..particularly the addenda ) and possibly do it 
again this year in Austin and next year in ...?"

and the ensuing firestorm concerning Kathy Lyle's response:

"Oktoberfest lost money because we failed to meet our room guarantees,
mainly because members chose to stay off the property to save money.  It's my
understanding that the host chapter negotiated those room guarantees
because it enabled them to receive comp'd rooms for chapter members during the
event. This negotiation will be handled by National in the future.

and now Fred Iacino's assertion:

From:    Fred Iacino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Ofest comp rooms?
> Date:    Tue, 7 Jan 2003 13:41:46 -0800
>
> Bob, you are correct that is not the way it happened.  Please make it
> clear to Bill Proud that the Rocky Mountain Chapter had nothing at all
> to do with the Contract at Keystone the National Office negotated the
> room rates, comp formula etc.

So, here goes:

1.    Mr. Bill -  the club has not lost $39,000 of the member's money on 
Oktoberfest 2002. At the time Michel Potheau wrote his column, the budget 
reflected a number of  -$37,105.89 being the amount reflected as of 
9/30/2002. That figure does not reflect invoices outstanding, the expense 
reports that will almost surely arrive well into 2003, and sponsorship money 
that has not been collected.  The Board, including one of the Event Chairs, 
Fred Iacino, developed in 2001 then accepted and voted to approve, a budgeted 
loss for the event of $24,950 recognizing going into it that there were 
several variables that had come into play after the inception of the event, - 
sometime in 1999 and the negotiation and signing of the contract with 
Keystone Resorts.  1. The economy was becoming increasingly iffy - not always 
a sign that Oktoberfest might have a low attendance...but it can be. 2. 
September 11th scared the hell out of all of us, and it was likely people who 
may have wanted to travel might now decide to stick close to home. 3. It 
became abundantly apparent that there was a plethora of housing available in 
spitting distance of Keystone and that many, many of the members intending to 
go were taking advantage of that rather than staying at Keystone.

So, I must tell you, Bill - $39,000 is not an accurate figure and frankly it 
won't be until May, or after, until we know precisely what the deficit was. 
It will likely be considerably less than the $39,000 being bandied about.  

Historically, we either break-even or we take a loss on Oktoberfest. In 1997 
and 2000 the event was quite profitable - so much so that in 2000 the three 
chapters hosting the event were able to give enormous donations to Make a 
Wish when the books were closed.

Oktoberfest is our premier event and for some, a sort of family reunion. 
There are members who will never even consider attending Ofest yet love to 
read the coverage of the event in Roundel, and there are members who cannot 
imagine a year without Oktoberfest. Because it is traditionally a not very 
profitable event, do we just stop having it?  As to the Board voting the loss 
away - we knew going into it, that for the reasons listed above it was very 
likely this Oktoberfest would be a loss. Would it have been more 
palitable/responsible for us to have forecast a highly unlikely profit? 

Bill, I am glad you've posted your "Nashville or Bust" challenge, and I hope 
those of you who are flirting with the idea of attending the upcoming meeting 
in Nashville, will take the time to do so. Members are always welcome to the 
open sessions of each Board Meeting. It's really more cost effective to 
conduct meetings here at the office - now that we have the space - but the 
Board chooses to travel to visit with Chapters, and it's so disappointing 
that hardly anyone from the chapters ever shows up to the meeting (we often 
do see a lot of members at the Saturday evening meal, but few at the actual 
meeting). By the way, the luxury hotel Bill has warned you we're squandering 
money on, will cost those of you needing a room $99 per night plus tax and is 
at an Embassy Suites airport hotel, so there's complimentary shuttle service. 
I'm a bit off topic, but just so you're aware - we choose hotels based 
primarily on room-night rates and how much can be comped - the meeting room, 
shuttles, etc. The Board has stayed in some real sinkholes trying to balance 
getting out to see the Chapters, while trying to keep costs to a minimum. 
Yes, there are still clubs that expect their volunteer Board members to pay 
their own way to Board Meetings - but in light of the responsibilities faced 
by our Board, the time and effort they expend to set the goals and strategy 
for this organization - it's just patently ridiculous to expect of them to 
pay for that 'privilege' out of their own pockets - and shame on anyone who's 
grousing about it.  

I will share with you, though, that I believe the Board members who attended 
Oktoberfest 2002 - Kathy Lyle, Barbara Adams, Reid Douglas, Scott Blazey - 
all paid for their own travel and rooms for the event. They were there as CCA 
members and did not claim reimbursement, although all of them volunteered and 
worked various events. Mark Jon Calabrese was there as a Roundel staffer, 
Satch and Phil Marx were there and worked events - all paid their own way.

2.    Kathy is traveling, so she hasn't the emails, spreadsheets, hard copies 
and information available at her fingertips and so responded from memory.  
We've all done that, I suspect.  Her response concerning the Oktoberfest loss 
might have been worded differently, and deserved a bit more information in 
explanation. 

So, here you go:

To say that National negotiated the comp rooms and room guarantees without 
Chapter involvement is not strictly correct. The comped rooms were based on 
the Chapter's requirements vis a vis the number of committee chairs and were 
discussed at length with me during a trip I took in June, 2000 to meet with 
the Event Chairs and the Rep from Keystone - and frankly the comp-room 
practice has been a common for as long as I have understood the process for 
Oktoberfest (my experience beginning in 1997).  The room nights were 
calculated on attendance of 600 - 650 members all staying at the property and 
we (Bruce Hazard, Fred Iacino and I)  all agreed that 600 was a likely figure 
since in 1989 and 1995 Fred and Bruce believed RMC had experienced about 650 
attendees.  I was told unequivocally that everyone would want to stay at 
Keystone as they had in years past - and because when we met with Keystone to 
negotiate the contract - we'd  driven to the property over Loveland Pass, I 
had no idea of what was available just miles down the road in Dillon and 
Breckenridge - it sure as heck looked to me that if you didn't stay at 
Keystone, you'd be sleeping in a tent or your car.  It wasn't until someone 
who shall remain nameless (but answers to Steven Schlossman) posted his 
findings concerning studios at Keystone outside our room block that I 
realized there was puh-lenty of other rooming options and we might just be in 
a bit of a pickle.

The initial contract with Keystone would have afforded the club 60 or so 
comped rooms for the Committee Chairs based on the negotiation with 
Keystone's agent (and that would have certainly allowed for extras). I 
reminded the Event Chairs yesterday that originally the contract was written 
so that there would only be one room night per 40 utilized, and during the 
dinner meeting with the rep, I'm pretty sure it was Bruce, who managed to get 
Keystone to agree to 1 per 32.  Several emails concerning that contract were 
exchanged between Bruce and me, and all of the Ofest team's, or at least the 
Event Chairs' recommendations were included, and I might add, accepted by 
Keystone. The finished contract presented and signed in July of 2000 and an 
addendum attached in August, 2000 based on more recommendations from Bruce 
and JR Schneider.

Comped rooms for volunteers weren't the only consideration, they never are - 
the club paid nothing or little for many of the reception rooms, meeting 
rooms, and registration rooms used based on room-night commitments, the costs 
for maintenance of the vendor area and registration were reduced against room 
night commitments. In future, it is apparent that we will end up paying 
significantly more for these rooms and services because we will no longer 
attempt to block rooms in this fashion.

The room rates, at the point I entered the negotiations - were not 
negotiable. We'd received a $10,000 Meeting Planning coupon from Keystone 
several months prior to that meeting - that vexed the rep no end - and he 
grudgingly agreed to give us that credit against the master bill that was the 
only concession Keystone would make to the rates that had already been 
established.

753 CCA members attended Oktoberfest 2002.  If all 753 had stayed at Keystone 
(and taking into account married couples sharing rooms) that would have been 
approximately 3,000 room nights - our final contractual commitment was 2198. 
Based on past experience we knew that not everyone would stay at the host 
site. The average since 1998 has been 75 - 78% of registered attendees stay 
at the host site. Sadly, our group filled less than half our commitment - 
that's only a little over 200 rooms per person/couple. For the anticipated 
600 - 650, our initial commitment to Keystone was quite close, especially if 
there really had been no where else for people to stay. The club would have 
gleaned 55 comped rooms - more than enough for committee chairs and then 
some. We understood going into the event that Committee chairs were getting a 
certain number of room nights comped and the Event Chair's rooms were going 
to be comped for the event. National was not privy to exactly who at RMC was 
to receive a comped room, and who was not and frankly it's none of our 
business. Jim Jenkins, Oktoberfest Treasurer sent all the approved expense 
reports to us and we cut checks based on the Chapter's approval -  if we were 
told it was OKed, it got paid. The club had 23 comped room nights subtracted 
from the total amount of the final invoice from Keystone.  Surprisingly, of 
the 191 Rocky Mountain Chapter members who registered for Oktoberfest, only 
20% booked rooms through our group at Keystone. Whether we made money or not, 
the club was not going to stiff a volunteer on that commitment, and we have 
not, whether the individual stayed at Keystone or not. 

In the past seven and a half years I've been responsible for negotiating the 
contracts for every Board Meeting, and more significantly each Congress. We 
have never paid a cent in attrition charges, and we have always come in under 
budget on the Congresses - and believe me - come to Nashville - the Board has 
never been profligate in budgeting for Board Meetings or Conferences.  

As the case has been in years past, we have relied on the expertise of the 
local chapter with respect to the venue and did our best to accommodate the 
chapter's and volunteer's needs against expectations, and against what 
attendees have done (in terms of rooms at the venue) in the past.  So, if 
you're looking specifically to assign blame for the loss we will experience 
for Oktoberfest 2002, don't blame our Board - blame me, it's my signature on 
the contract. 

3. As to Fred Iacino's assertion - "Please make it clear to Bill Proud that 
the Rocky Mountain Chapter had nothing at all
to do with the Contract at Keystone the National Office negotated the room 
rates, comp formula etc."

Fred is correct, I believe the Rocky Mountain Chapter had nothing to do with 
the contract, but the Oktoberfest Event Chairs most definitely did. 

RMC, at least the Event Chairs representing RMC,  had veto power and were 
absolutely instrumental in the negotiation process of the contract with the 
venue - I don't think anything I have on file is proprietary, and I have 
faxes and emails clearly delineating clauses in the contract that needed 
adjusting, or verbiage changes. I was grateful to Bruce Hazard in particular 
for his willingness to use his expertise in this manner. If anyone had said 
"we don't think we're going to see 650 people - we don't think a lot of 
people are going to want to stay at Keystone because it's expensive they may 
end up in Dillon or Breckenridge - you need to cut those numbers back"  it 
would have been done. National bankrolled the entire event, we had a vested 
interest in it being a success, and we also recognized that the Chapter had 
hosted three previous Oktoberfests and knew the venue far better than we did. 

When it became abundantly clear that there were many, less expensive 
properties available close to Keystone - or available at Keystone through 
private owners - and equally apparent that anyone with a computer and 
internet connection knew they could stay ten minutes down the road for $40 or 
$50 less a night, National began working hard to renegotiate the contract to 
significantly reduce the room night commitment and in this instance - Fred is 
absolutely correct - we did that without Chapter involvement - I alerted Fred 
to the fact that I felt we had to do so, and he agreed.  We were successful 
in reducing the room commitment by 20% and a new contract was issued on 
January 25, 2002 - and at that time the comped room rate was raised back to 1 
night for 40 rooms filled. 

I could go on, but suspect many of you may be cross-eyed at this point, so 
I'll close by saying if you have questions about this sort of thing, please 
don't speculate, I'm pretty sure you all know where I am, and I'm pretty sure 
you know I try really hard to answer emails reasonably quickly.  

Wynne Smith
Looking forward to seing/meeting some of you in Nashville

------------------------------

End of [uucdigest] V3 #6007
***************************

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