[uucdigest] Thursday, February 13 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6112
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon [uuc] Re: [uucdigest] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon [uuc] Re: Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon - most anything's possible [uuc] RE: Towing with an X5 [uuc] re: towing and suspension damage. RE: [uuc] More driveline woes....Please help Re: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon Re: [uuc] re: towing and suspension damage. RE: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon Re: [uuc] Advice on 5 series E28 vs E34 535i ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:49:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon I have no specific data on which to make this statement, so I could be wrong, but here's my gut... No way. I'm sorry, but no normal sedan based car is fit to tow an enclosed trailer with a car and complement of tires/tools/people/etc. The tongue weight alone of that setup would need to be roughly 500-750 lbs., according to recommended trailer weight distributions and the total weight of the proposed setup. I certainly hope the S6 has rear wheel steering, because those are going to be the only ones touching the ground. - - Neil > I like bimmers but the S6 can probably get your job > done and be a whole lot > of fun to drive. > > Stefano > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:06:01 -0600 From: Scott Blazey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: [uucdigest] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon I have not encountered any problems towing my race car in an enclosed trailer with a 2002 X5 4.4i. I towed about 9,000 miles with it last season. It has the BMW dealer-installed hitch, and a Draw-Tite Activator III electric brake controller. I think one reason that I had no problems is the trailer is very light (1750 pounds), very well made (Trailex) and it is nicely balanced. The load includes a 3250-pound M3 plus additional wheels and spare parts. As I said, the X5 had no problem pulling it, and I normally cruise at about 75 mph on the Interstate. The tow rating for the X5 4.4i is 6,000 pounds, and the maximum allowable tongue weight is 600 pounds. My trailer's tongue weight, loaded, is well under 400 pounds. The only drawbacks are that in hilly country I would have the Steptronic in manual to keep it in lower (4th) gear longer to avoid frequent up- and downshifting; gas mileage, which is normally 18-21 mpg on long trips would drop to 11-14 when towing; and the cargo space, which is limited but adequate with the judicious use of Roughneck containers. And yes, one of the reasons I chose the X5 is that on those 345 days a year that I'm not towing, it's a whole lot better as a daily driver than a pickup or large SUV. For garage space and other considerations, my daily driver has to double as my tow vehicle. Sorry, can't speak to the pros and cons of towing with the 540. Good luck. - --Scott - ------------------------ >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:57:06 -0500 >From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon > >Here's an interesting question (well, interesting to me at least).... > >Does anyone tow with their X5? Or their 540 wagon? > >Does anyone know what the tow rating is for the 540? I think that BMW NA >does not publish any tow ratings for the 540 in the US, but I would think >they must in Europe, because when I've driven on the continent, I've seen >every make of BMW from Z3 on up towing things -- even a 520(ish) wagon >towing a giant camper for vacations. > >I'm looking to buy a new mommy-vehicle for the wife. Would love to be able >to use it as a tow vehicle; 1800-2000 lbs. enclosed trailer, 3000lbs. car. >So an X5 with a 6000lbs. rating is probably on the marginal side, but it >would only be a half-dozen times a year, if that. > >I know that something like a Suburban would be ideal, but I do NOT enjoy >driving big trucks on a daily basis -- hence the interest in an X5. But I >also know that a 540 wagon actually has more room than an X5, and aside from >lacking AWD, is more fun to drive. > >So, any and all suggestions welcome! And any links to websites with more >info on X5s (and 540 tourings) would be most appreciated. > >thx, > >- --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:29:33 -0800 From: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon - most anything's possible Submitted for your approval: Lucy and Desi in the 1954 movie "The long, long trailer". 32' and over 3 tons of trailer being hauled by a 1953 Mercury convertible (125hp, flathead v8). And that was prior to Lucy loading up with rocks and canned goods. Total Hollywood fiction? Having seen my Mom doing several snowbird trips to and from Arizona with a 20+-' fifth wheel dwarfing a little old Chevy Luv, I'd say no. She claimed the main problem was doing 15mph up some of the steeper hills. I imagine lots of friendly folks were giving her that California wave when they got a chance to blast by her.. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:51:23 -0500 From: "John Weese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Towing with an X5 I looked into this once before, and I believe the towing capacity of the X5's are rather "light" compared to many other SUV or "um" SAV's <g>.....My Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.2 Liter V-8 has it all over a 3.0 and possibly even the 4.4 Liter X5 in towing capacity, as I recall. My wife is pushing me for an X5 when the Jeep dies, and I'm not convinced that's the way to go, if I need that occasional tow of one of my beloved '02's <g>. Anyone have any technical specs on pulling capacities of the X5's, and is a towing package standard on the X5 or an expensive "option"? Thanks, John Weese BMW CCA #76646 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:15:11 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] re: towing and suspension damage. re: towing A company called Da Lan has been making BMW hitches for years. Call 1 (800) hitches. I had one installed on an E36 //M3. For safety sake, I urge professional installation. Also that makes it their liability if something fails. Safety has to be the _First priority when towing. No matter what. Towing puts excessively larger loads on suspension components. Damage may not appear right away. Here's what happened: I used the hitch to tow 2000+ pounds of U Haul trailer cross country. The 3500mile trip went free of mechanical problems. Fuel economy was around 18mpg, compared to an unladen 28 to 30mpg at 79mph on cruise control. However: A few thousand miles after the trip, with only 25k miles on the car, One of the rear trailing arm bushings suddenly failed. The sleeve broke out of the rubber totally. I found my rear suspension wiggly wobbly side to side. Further inspection showed that one of the sleeves that weld into the floor to receive the trailing arm bushing mounting cup bolts had cracked out at the weld. BMW replaced the bushings and repaired the broken welds fully under warranty. They said that since the suspension was stock they would cover the repair. When they said that, I sure as heck kept my mouth shut about the tow. They asked what I use the hitch for, and I told them them I use it for a bike rack. Quite true, and also a more secure way to mount bicycles than a rack than on the roof. So you definitely can tow with these cars, but I would thoroughly inspect all suspension bushings and mounts and replace anything that shows even the slightest amount of wear. And if you don't want to have to sweat any of this when you tow, there are definite advantages to a Suburban over a BMW. fwiw, 'jk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:26:35 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] More driveline woes....Please help Thanks Kirk, This really isn't a hodgepodge car. It's a very solid & good car. Everyone who drives it is very impressed. It's just suffering a little from lack of experience with it due to it's rarity--which actually shouldn't be true concerning the suspension. The suspension work was done by one place & the driveshaft by another, someone who Tim Ng, who I trust, trusts very much. I wanted to do both, but time sometimes doesn't work in my favor.....from now on though. The driveshaft is a commonly touted one from Portland Driveshaft, which is a factory rebuilt unit with greasable u-joints. This is actually one of the very few upgrades I have done to the car. Even most of the suspension is stock. I keep thinking of the rear subframe mounts, but they are pretty new, meaning they would have had to fail in only 5000 miles. I've pushed, pulled, tugged on the rear subframe & just can't find that there's anything amiss. If there's a better way other than pulling the mounts, I'd be glad to try. I really think it's in the drivetrain, as changes there cause changes in symptoms. Lee 88 M3 01 Saab 9-3SE->can't really have this lapping Roebling faster than BMWs at a CCA event > -----Original Message----- > From: Eurowerks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:37 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] More driveline woes....Please help > > > Sounds like the rear subframe mounts where the subframe > mounts to the body > right in front of the rear wheels to me. I would look for a > problem there > first. Sounds also like this is kind of a hodgepodge car, > not good. Who > has done all of the suspension work to this car? Doesn't > sound like I would > be going back. > This also reminds me of how nice it is to use factory parts, > that are meant > for the car, not some "upgrade" that is supposed to work > better. If BMW > wanted it to work better, they would have done it that way first! > > Kirk A. Gilchrist > EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair > 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 888-522-0271 toll free > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:32:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Curtis A. Ingraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon Neil N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In my experience, renting an open trailer from U-Haul > is not easy. You need to know pretty well in advance, > as many UH centers, at least in my area, don't readily > have many of these. I think Penske may rent some, > IIRC, but similar availability problems exist. Plus, > it's around $150 per day, IIRC, so if you go anywhere > far for a multi-day school, you're looking at a good > chunk of an open trailer. My experience with U-Haul has been different. Auto transport trailers have been plentiful at the U-Haul centers I've used in California, and the cost was $50-75 per day. U-Haul does insist on knowing the make and model of the tow vehicle and load, and they will refuse the deal if it doesn't meet their secret criteria. Curt Ingraham Oakland, CA 72 2002tii 95 Suburban K2500, 10,000-lb towing capacity, FS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:01:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] re: towing and suspension damage. What is the air speed velocity of an unladen M3? :) (Non-Monty Python fans needn't reply.) > Fuel economy was around 18mpg, compared to an > unladen 28 to 30mpg at > 79mph on cruise control. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:02:59 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon When I was thinking about using Uhaul a few years ago they would not take a "reservation" for car trailers. They said call the day before I needed it. That was in the Palo Alto area, across the bay from Oakland for those of you not familiar with SF bay area geography. One thing to factor in for those that do UHaul. The trailers are heavy, and the ramps usually aren't set up for low cars, so be prepared. Marco - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Curtis A. Ingraham Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] Towing with an X5 -- or a 540i touring wagon My experience with U-Haul has been different. Auto transport trailers have been plentiful at the U-Haul centers I've used in California, and the cost was $50-75 per day. U-Haul does insist on knowing the make and model of the tow vehicle and load, and they will refuse the deal if it doesn't meet their secret criteria. Curt Ingraham Oakland, CA 72 2002tii 95 Suburban K2500, 10,000-lb towing capacity, FS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:02:30 -0500 From: "RA Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Advice on 5 series E28 vs E34 535i Andrew; Like Rob,I've owned a few of both. An'85 535i(modified track car),'86 535i(w/MM head and shrick cam,7 brakes,etc.),'87 535is mostly stock,and two 1990 E34 535i's as well, one modified for driver's school,but it never could quite reach the potential of the '85 car,due to the weight penalty.The E28 was more fun to toss,but the E34 had so much more going for it on the street,it's no contest. With a few suspension mods,16" rims, and gearing change the E34 was dead straight at 140MPH on the Penna. Trnpk.on cruise,and would almost catch E28 M5's ontrack.If you have to have only one of the two,and it's to be a daily car,try to find an E34 535i. There is a 1990 black 535i 156K,all tricked out w/RD 17x8.5"wheels and H&R springs,Bilsteins,cross-drilled,etc.,that's for sale here in S.Fla.,although there may be a deposit on it at $9400,a very good price as the car went from original owner to a mechanic at a BMW specialty shop here.Good luck... Rags >From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [uuc] Advice on 5 series >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:52:10 -0500 > >A good start is www.bmwe34.net > >Having owned E28s and the E34, I can tell you that the E34 is a true >evolution of the E28. Virtually everything you liked about the E28 is >present in the E34, and you also get improvement tweaks in the suspension >(no major revolution, but effective updates), stiffer chassis, better wind >noise suppression and generally quieter cabin, updated interior controls, >and more reliable and effective engine management. Of course, the weight >increase minimizes the power gains between the E28 535i and E34 535i, but >it >is certainly no slower. Reduced engine maintenance costs of the E34 are >offset by potentially higher costs in other systems such as climate >control, >ASC (if equipped), etc. > >When I first got the E34, I popped the hood and expected everything to be >similar as it was fundamentally the same engine as the last E28 I had. >That >idea was destroyed in about 10 seconds of looking at various parts and >thinking, "What's that? And that? And what the heck could that be? >Where's the...?" But, just like the E28, the learning curve is steep but >straightforward. > >I really like both chassis, and occasionally look at E28s for sale... but >let nobody kid you, when BMW produces an updated chassis, it's for more >reasons than simple flashy marketing. > >- Rob >'98 750iL/6 >'94 M5 Touring >ex-'88 M5 Turbo >ex-'85 535i Turbo >ex-'86 535i >ex-'85 535i > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Andrew Harkonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] Advice on 5 series > > > > Hello Group, > > > > I sold my '95 M3 a few weeks ago. I miss her dearly but it had to be >done. > > I am now in the market for a 5 series. I have owned an E28 in the past >and > > could not have been happier. I was originally thinking an E28 535is >would > > be nice. During my search I have seen a few nice E34 535i(s) for sale >in >my > > price range. Can anybody point me to any sites that document the things >to > > look out for on these cars as well as trim levels, sports packages etc? >Has > > anybody owned them both who can give me a idea of the major differences > > besides obvious appearance, for example driving characteristics, >handling, > > etc. Thanks in advance for the help. Direct replies are welcome. > > > > Andrew Harkonen > > BMW-less for now, borrowing a '69 MGB for the time being. > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6112 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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