[uucdigest] Thursday, February 20 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6125
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] <E28> high exhaust temps/misfires/lean running (was Found culprit) Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Re:[uuc] LED replacement bulbs???? Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping [uuc] Portable MIG/TIG in Chicago Re: [uuc] <E28> high exhaust temps/misfires/lean running (was Found culprit) RE: [uuc] Portable MIG/TIG in Chicago [uuc] Fw: <E28> Found the Culprit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:01:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E28> high exhaust temps/misfires/lean running (was Found culprit) Gary, if I'm remembering correctly, you said misfires will dump unburned O2 and fuel into the cat which will cause really high exhaust temps. Is the FPR output difference (~30 psi instead of ~43 psi) going to lean the mixture enough to cause mixture? How lean is "way lean?" Ron, did you experience any misfiring? - -tammer f., wondering if these two theories can be reconciled - --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When tuning for full power, you want to be rich of > stochiometric. In that > zone, leaner is hotter. If you are already at > stochiometric, leaner is > cooler. Yes, a lean mixture burns slower. Way lean will > misfire. > > Gary Derian __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:07:38 -0500 From: "Rob Levinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Clarifying a small part of Brad's excellent dissertation, absolutely no 533i had ABS. The E28 first got ABS for the '85 model year, also the first year for the 535i. - - Rob - ---- Original Message ---- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping >The 533i didn't have ABS. Not the earlier ones, at >least. The 535i, on the other hand, did. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:17:08 -0600 From: "Robert Ledesma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re:[uuc] LED replacement bulbs???? Sorry, I'm a little behind going through the digests. I would not recommend those LED replacement bulbs. Not sure who makes them, but I bought some that appear exactly the same from Auto Zone for $15/pr. Yes they illuminate quicker, but as I suspected, they project no light onto the reflector. The entire lens appears black except the 3/4" circle that is the direct view of the actual LED bulb. They don't appear any brighter either and there's the issue with the "check light." Regards, Robert Ledesma Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:48:02 -0500 (EST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: [uuc] LED replacement bulbs???? Thanks for the info, I'll check them out David - - -------Original Message------- From: KKiely <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 02/18/03 02:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] LED replacement bulbs???? > > David, Check out : http://www.myroadster.net/ under the LED... flag. It appears that you may have to add resistance to fool the light check. Otherwise if they're bright enough LED's are a good choice. Also, you might want to hunt for "white" LED replacements if your covers are already colored. There are some very bright "white" LED's now available. If you're good with a soldering iron, you can actually make these yourself. - - -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:52:56 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping My fault. I couldn't remember if ABS came in '84 or '85. I was too lazy to verify it on the ETK ; -) Brad - --- Rob Levinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Clarifying a small part of Brad's excellent > dissertation, absolutely > no 533i had ABS. > > The E28 first got ABS for the '85 model year, also > the first year for > the 535i. > > - Rob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:33:39 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Turgeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Portable MIG/TIG in Chicago I have to make a could of small repairs on my race car and would like to borrow/use the above piece of equipment. My garage is currently only wired for 120v. The car is on jack stands while the engine is being rebuilt. I will gladly compensate you for your efforts. Please contact me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] as soon as possible. Thanks, Mike #418 ITS/JP __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:07:42 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E28> high exhaust temps/misfires/lean running (was Found culprit) The lean misfire limit depends on the engine. Normally 20% lean or more. Dropping fuel pressure from 3 bar to 2.5 bar decreases fuel sqrt(3.0/2.5) or 10%. Not enough to cause lean misfire. Plus the EGO feedback will richen up the part throttle back to stochiometric. The description of the driving was a severe lack of power for some time before the fire was noticed, that tells me the catalyst heated up during this phase which was characterized by misfire. I don't have an answer beyond that. If this is a Canadian model with no EGO sensor, open loop fueling, and a 2 way cat, the added 10% lean may cause lean misfire. Gary Derian > Gary, if I'm remembering correctly, you said misfires will > dump unburned O2 and fuel into the cat which will cause > really high exhaust temps. Is the FPR output difference > (~30 psi instead of ~43 psi) going to lean the mixture > enough to cause mixture? How lean is "way lean?" > > Ron, did you experience any misfiring? > > -tammer f., wondering if these two theories can be > reconciled > > --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > When tuning for full power, you want to be rich of > > stochiometric. In that > > zone, leaner is hotter. If you are already at > > stochiometric, leaner is > > cooler. Yes, a lean mixture burns slower. Way lean will > > misfire. > > > > Gary Derian > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:11:51 -0600 From: "Jefrem Iwaniw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Portable MIG/TIG in Chicago fwiw, you can usually rent a small mig welder for about $25/day from one of those tool rental places. hth, - -jefrem - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Turgeon Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 7:34 AM To: UUC List; E36M3 Subject: [uuc] Portable MIG/TIG in Chicago I have to make a could of small repairs on my race car and would like to borrow/use the above piece of equipment. My garage is currently only wired for 120v. The car is on jack stands while the engine is being rebuilt. I will gladly compensate you for your efforts. Please contact me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] as soon as possible. Thanks, Mike #418 ITS/JP __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:47:42 -0500 From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Fw: <E28> Found the Culprit - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Nate Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: Re: <E28> Found the Culprit > Nate, > > Just to explain once again, since I beleive you misread what I was saying. > I understand that BMW installed different FPR in cars in the 80's. One at > 3.0 bar (for the 535i) and one at 2.5 bar (for the 528e), as you said : > > >BMW > >has used a number of different fuel pressure regulators, including both 2.5 > >Bar and 3.0 Bar reguators. They were using both of these during the > >mid-80's, although not on the same engines during the same years. > > I have a 535i with the M30 engine. In Dec 2002, I ordered a FPR online from > thepartsbin.com for a 535i, which is supposed to be rated at 3.0 BAR / 42 > PSI, and instead I got one that is calibrated for a 528e, running at 2.5 BAR > / 30 PSI. I (carelessly, and hastily) assumed that the FPR sent to me by > thepartsbin.com was the correct one at time of purchase and installed it in > the car. This caused a lean condition, which caused a cascade effect in the > car. I needed to correct this issue, so I went to the dealer, and > purchased the correct one. One at 3.0 BAR/43 PSI > > Why I believe you misunderstood, what is in my car now you said: > > >The testing of your new fuel pressure regulator, as you have described it, > >makes it sound perfect. As a 2.5 Bar regulator, it should have been > >running > >at around 30psi and then gone up to 35 or so when the vacuum hose was > >pulled > >off. > > Yes it would have been perfect if I was driving a 528e which needs that > specific FPR installed, running at 2.5 BAR. > > As of yesterday, My 85 535i, now has a stock, factory spec dealer purchased > FPR running at 3.0 BAR (visually verified) which is the correct FPR for the > 535i in the car now. I removed the 2.5 BAR FPR, which is the factory spec > for the 528e, not belonging in my car (which is a 535i). I am completely > clear on the fact that the 2.5 FPR was the wrong part, that is why I changed > it. Even the Bentleys states that the 535i needs approx 42-43 PSI (3.0 BAR) > of fuel pressure, which indicates that I had the wrong one in the car and it > was in fact not perfect. > > I understand your point about watching the car for the next few days as a > precaution, which I fully intend to do. > > Thanks for the input > Cheers > Ron J > 85 535i > 73 911s 2.7 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nate Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:03 AM > Subject: Re: <E28> Found the Culprit > > > > Ron, > > > > I don't want to seem like a real jerk, but I'm not convinced by your > > explanation. > > > > It sounds to me like you ordered/installed the wrong part for your car. > BMW > > has used a number of different fuel pressure regulators, including both > 2.5 > > Bar and 3.0 Bar reguators. They were using both of these during the > > mid-80's, although not on the same engines during the same years. I stock > > both fuel pressure regulators, and we always check carefully to make sure > > the correct part is on the car. > > > > The testing of your new fuel pressure regulator, as you have described it, > > makes it sound perfect. As a 2.5 Bar regulator, it should have been > running > > at around 30psi and then gone up to 35 or so when the vacuum hose was > pulled > > off. And crimping off the fuel return hose should certainly send the fuel > > pressure up above 100; that's what's supposed to happen. > > > > Additionally, although a lean mixture will cause the engine to run too > hot, > > it will not cause the exhaust to get too hot. That can only happen with > too > > much fuel. > > > > So, you may still have had an intermittently faulty (sticking closed) new > > fuel pressure regulator, or you may still have another problem with the > car. > > Be very careful for the next few days, just to make sure the problem is > > solved. > > > > - Nate > > > > Nate Smith > > Optimal Auto Care - BMW > > 2335 Soquel Drive > > Santa Cruz, CA 95065 > > 831-476-1332 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > OSS Committee Member > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "M535i SIG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "BMW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "E28 > Group" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "UUC-BMW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 8:01 AM > > Subject: <E28> Found the Culprit it seems.. Re Stalling Rough Idle Ongoing > > issue > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I have written a few posts about my 85 535i, and rough idle, loss of > > power, > > > and issues related to it, when driving back from Florida to Toronto. > > > > > > Well yesterday it all came to a head. I was on my way to a meeting in > the > > > morning, and the car started to idle roughly, and would lose power > unless > > I > > > had the gas pedal pushed all the way down. While driving, the car would > > > surge up to 5000 rpm, the tires would spin and the car would start to > move > > > normally, and then as soon as the rpms would settle down, the engine > would > > > stumble, almost stall, and repeat the cycle again. I was driving down > the > > > road, with my 4 ways looking like someone that doenst know how to drive > > > standard. Then all of a sudden I lost brake pedal pressure, and had no > > > brakes, but they came back, and the car started to behave properly. . > > Then > > > someone in a car beside me started honking for me to pull over, when I > > > rolled my window down, they told me I had a fire under the car. I > quickly > > > pulled over and looked underneath, and saw some flames, and put them out > > > with my fire extinguisher I keep behind my seat. After I looked at > where > > > the fire was, I noticed it was a rubber hangar from the exhaust system. > I > > > parked the car, jumped in a cab and went to the meeting. While at the > > > meeting I had the car towed over to a mechanic that I know. I left the > > > meeting and borrowed a freinds car (beauty 99 mercedes E320) and drove > > over > > > to the mechanics, just as the car was being pulled in. They put the car > > on > > > the hoist, and lifted it up, and we inspected the underside, and noticed > > > that the hanger that caught on fire was right near the gas/brake lines, > on > > > the drivers side of the car, under the rear seat. That made us realize > > that > > > the fire had boiled the brake fluid, causing the brakes to go, so we > bled > > > the brakes, and they were back to normal. Then we started to look into > > why > > > the exhaust got hot enough to cause the hangar to catch on fire. It was > > > most likely a lean condition in the engine. So we popped the hood and > > > started the car, and it ran fine, and then started to stumble for a > brief > > > amount, and then evened out. I explained that I had changed the ICV, > and > > > the FPR due to past problems similar to this problem.. We then hooked > up > > a > > > feul pressure guage to the input feul line, and started the car. It > > showed > > > that the car was running with 30 PSI. Then thier Mitchell computer > > program > > > for the the proper specs, and found that it should be running at 42 psi, > > > with specific volume that I cant remember. We went back to the car. > and > > > checked the guage again. It was still at 30 psi and the engine was > > running > > > fine. My Mechanic friend advised me that the car wasnt getting enough > > feul, > > > and was therefore running lean, which was heating up the exhaust, which > in > > > turn was causing the feul in the same spot to boil, and causing > cavitation > > > in the feul line, which was causing the stumbling issues. The only > issue > > > was why the PSI was at 30 instead of 42. We started to think feul pump, > > > clogged filter. The filter medium is so big, that we doubted it was the > > > culprit, so the next possibility was the pump. Then he decided to call > > > another BMW mechanic, to talk to him on the phone and explained the > > > situation, and he said to try the Feul Pressure Regulator. (the one I > had > > > replaced) So we went over and used a pair of vice grips to pinch the > > > bigger line that comes out of the FPR and it made the feul pressure > guage > > > jump to 115 PSI. It pointed right to the FPR as faulty. the next thing > > was > > > to remove the small vacuum line from the top of the FPR, and when we did > > the > > > pressure came up to 40 PSI. So based on his explanation it is the FPR, > > its > > > not opening operating prolerly possibly due to a ruptured inner > diaphragm, > > > or maybe even the wrong calibration. Which caused the whole loop > problem. > > > car ran fine cold, but when hot, due to lean condition, it would heat up > > the > > > exhaust, that would boil the feul line, and cause cavitation, and as > soon > > as > > > the car would cool it would go away. makes sense since the condition > only > > > happened when I was on a long drive, or stuck in traffic doing the stop > > and > > > go. > > > > > > So now I have to go the dealer and get another FPR $170 CAD, or $110.00 > > USD, > > > and I have a faulty one that I ordered from thepartsbin.com, that almost > > > burned my car to the ground. Hopefully they will refund my money, and > if > > > they don;t I will reverse the charges on my Credit Card bill. I guess > the > > > warnings regarding getting parts directly to the dealer should sometimes > > be > > > given creedence, especially regarding feul injection parts. The faulty > > one > > > was made by bosch and all, and just to save a couple of bucks, I ordered > > it > > > from an online company, which I understand gets thier parts from World > > Pac. > > > > > > So off to the dealer to get the new FPR.... Then on tuesday I change my > > feul > > > filter just to be on the safe side. (too cold and snowy to do it here, > so > > > its getting done at my mechanic friends, along with a valve adjustment) > > > > > > Cheers > > > Ron J > > > 85 535i > > > 73 911s 2.7 > > > -- > > > to be removed from bmw, see http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi > > > or email "unsubscribe bmw" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6125 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
