[uucdigest] Thursday, February 20 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6126
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping [uuc] Thanks everyone.... Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping [uuc] Re: Speaking of E28s - engine swapping [uuc] Was: Speaking of E28s, Now: Keeping the 533i [uuc] Motronic 1.0 vs Motronic 1.2? Differences? [uuc] [E28] stuff for sale Re: [uuc] Motronic 1.0 vs Motronic 1.2? Differences? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:57:09 -0800 From: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Still hoping for some good data on swapping a 1987 535 engine and maybe 5spd transmission into a 1983 533i 5spd. I am aware that the 533 has a lighter flywheel, and might swap it onto the 535, but with the clutch vibration in the 533 I dunno.. I know the '87 has ABS and my 533 doesn't. Nor do I have any desire to replumb and wire the 533 to do an ABS "upgrade". Not because I have mad driving skills, but because projects get way out of hand and I've seen the hubs, wheel sensors, ABS computer, wiring harness, wire headed across the dash to the driver's side, ABS pump, hydraulic plumbing etc. - and I want no part of it! Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. Focus. Eyes on the prize. With a '83 533i and a '87 donor car can I swap engines and transmissions with relative ease? Any wire splicing involved? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:00:26 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Thanks everyone.... Everyone, Thanks for your help with my driveline noise. In the end, the 3rd center bearing and second flex disk solved everything. Hopefully, a fluke. Thanks, Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:18:57 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Tom, One more thing I forgot to mention. If that 535i is an '86 or later, it's got the aluminum shifter console. You HAVE to use the correct console with whatever transmission you have. Some people prefer the earlier sheetmetal console over the later aluminum one whereas others are vice versa. I used the sheetmetal console on my auto-to-manual swap simply because the tranny came out of an '85 528e. . . actually, my FIRST manual tranny was from an '85 528e whereas my current tranny came out of an '86 325e, but most of the other parts came out of an '85 528e. Anyway, if you use your 533i tranny, use your sheetmetal console. If you get an '86, '87, or '88 535i tranny, you'll need the console to go with it. Brad Couvillon '87 528e <-- had a sex change a few months ago www.fatdaddybmw.com - --- T WALROD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Still hoping for some good data on swapping a 1987 > 535 engine and maybe 5spd > transmission into a 1983 533i 5spd. I am aware that > the 533 has a lighter > flywheel, and might swap it onto the 535, but with > the clutch vibration in > the 533 I dunno.. I know the '87 has ABS and my 533 > doesn't. Nor do I have > any desire to replumb and wire the 533 to do an ABS > "upgrade". Not because > I have mad driving skills, but because projects get > way out of hand and I've > seen the hubs, wheel sensors, ABS computer, wiring > harness, wire headed > across the dash to the driver's side, ABS pump, > hydraulic plumbing etc. - > and I want no part of it! Not gonna do it. > Wouldn't be prudent. Focus. > Eyes on the prize. > > With a '83 533i and a '87 donor car can I swap > engines and transmissions > with relative ease? Any wire splicing involved? > > Thanks __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:29:12 -0500 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Plug and play. - ----------------------------------------------------- BMW Special Tool Rentals Pay per incident tech support - ----------------------------------------------------- Brett Anderson KMS (440) 338 1650 www.koalamotorsport.com OSS committee member - ----- Original Message ----- From: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > With a '83 533i and a '87 donor car can I swap engines and transmissions > with relative ease? Any wire splicing involved? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:31:52 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: Speaking of E28s - engine swapping Tom, besides the engine differences, the 535i has ABS brakes which the 533i does not. How about finding a 535i, transferring over your good interior, and living with the exterior? Just a thought. But my perspective is from the point of view that my car sits in a BART station parking lot all day and acquires more than its share of door dings. Or how about this? Find a 535i that is the same color as your 533i, and transfer over not just the interior, but also the fenders, doors, hood and trunk lid? Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:12:19 -0800 >From: "T WALROD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] Speaking of E28s - engine swapping > >Gurus - >I am toying with the notion of picking up a '87 535i 5spd and swapping it's >engine (and maybe transmission) and engine/computer wiring harness into my >'83 533i 5spd. Though my 533 isn't perfect it seems to be in better shape >on the interior and exterior than any other E28s I've seen for sale (maybe >12-15 cars). My clutch is transmitting more vibration than I think it >should, I've an oil leak at the headgasket area, and the engine has 233000 >miles on it. Seems like going to the 3.5 with 50000 fewer miles and an >engine computer capable of accepting a chip would be a nice upgrade. Bigger >motor, light(er) car. <snip> >Tom (who needs custom? - I screw up enough all on my own) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Was: Speaking of E28s, Now: Keeping the 533i Scott, I would much rather have a 533i with a B34 engine and engine management in it than run a stock 535i. There are several reasons for this: * The 533i is much, much lighter. It started as a Euro e28 528i that had the B32 installed into it. It was then converted to US spec. This means some (or all) 533i's didn't have heavy things like power windows, ABS, etc. * You learn much more when you remove important parts of your car and put completely different ones in there. Trust me on this one ; -) www.fatdaddybmw.com/tranny A 533i with 535i engine will be a much quicker car than a stock 535i. One last thing that doesn't entirely pertain to this thread: The M30 engine seems to have many more options for transmissions than our M20s do. The M20 can only have e28 M20 and e30 M20 trannies whereas the M30 can use any e12, e28 M30, e34 M30, or e28 S38 tranny. . . or so I hear. This allows you to select the specific transmission and shifter console that you want for your application. Just a few things to think about : -) Brad Couvillon '87 528e www.fatdaddybmw.com - --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Tom, besides the engine differences, the 535i has > ABS brakes which the 533i > does not. How about finding a 535i, transferring > over your good interior, > and living with the exterior? Just a thought. But > my perspective is from > the point of view that my car sits in a BART station > parking lot all day > and acquires more than its share of door dings. Or > how about this? Find a > 535i that is the same color as your 533i, and > transfer over not just the > interior, but also the fenders, doors, hood and > trunk lid? > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:12:54 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Motronic 1.0 vs Motronic 1.2? Differences? Boys and Girls, I did some reading in my Bosch Fuel Injection book by Bentley Publishers (it's a bright blue book) yesterday evening. I was looking through the L-Jet and LH-Jet stuff and moved on to L-Motronic and LH-Motronic. I realized that the LH-Motronic is very similar to the L-Motronic with the exception, of course, of the MAF and the ECU. . . these are the main differences, not all. By the way, All US M20-powered e28s and e30s have L-Motronic, which means it has an AFM and Motronic engine management. For those of you that aren't familiar with this nomenclature, the L-Motronic is basically an ECU to control L-Jet fuel injection as well as ignition timing. LH-Motronic is of course an ECU to control LH-Jet and ignition mapping. The H stands for "hot wire" as I understand it, which means the LH-Jet and LH-Motro has a MAF. The M70B50 (e32 750iL engine) has two Motronic 1.2 ECUs (on pre-91s; later models had 1.7), two MAFs, two throttle bodies, two air filters, yada x3. The big thing here is that it's got Motronic 1.2 and a MAF. After re-reading some info on what SMiller's Dinan e30 Turbo-owning friend did, I don't have a LOT more info, but I do know that transplanting the LH-Motro stuff into an L-Motro car is POSSIBLE, although difficult. I did about 4 hours of research on the internet and my ETK last night, and all I found out was: * Motronic 1.2 has a three-row connector like Mot 1.1 and 1.3 * e32 750iL has two ECUs but only one wiring harness. This means you would have to remove the parts of the wiring harness that go to the second set of whatever. * I could find no extra sensors attached to the 750 wiring harness that would have to be added. Perhaps Dinan Turbo e30 man has Motronic 1.7? * 750iL uses the same exact injectors as the 325i. * 750iL runs a 3 bar FPR that's a different FPR from the 325i. * 850CSi runs a different MAF from the 750iL; perhaps this is a good upgrade to an already-LH-Motronicced car This isn't much info, and I spent 3.5 hours finding this crap out. There's a little more stuff I learned, but it's not much either. Obviously, I don't want to spend another 3.5 hours to find out what I need to know, so I figured I'd ask the gurus on this board. * What exactly are the differences between Motronic 1.0 and 1.2? * What kind of chip is inside the Motronic 1.2 ECU? * Does anyone have anywhere I can go to find out exactly what is attached to the 750iL wiring harness (I'm looking for ETM schematics, here)? I think that's about all I can think of right now. Would anyone care to contribute? TIA! Brad "Shifty" Couvillon '87 528e www.fatdaddybmw.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) From: James Muskopf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] [E28] stuff for sale - -- Complete E28 interior, two tone burgundy leather with anthracite grey trim and carpet. Includes POWER front seats with switches and all necessary wiring, door panels, center consoles, glove box, driver's knee panel, door handles, and interior carpet. All parts are in very good condition, leather is in good to very good condition. Pics will be up on my website soon. Asking $400. - -- Complete 4-piston M5/M6 brake setup with good used rotors (not warped!), stainless lines, Hawk HP Plus pads, and rebuilt calipers. $650 OBO. - -- Complete E34 non-vented rear brakes (300x10mm) with calipers, rotors, and BMW OE pads, all in good used condition. Excellent upgrade for any 1983+ 6er or E28. $250 OBO. Get both M5 front and E34 rear brakes for $800. - -- Complete 5-speed conversion for E28 including pedals/bracket, clutch master, slave, Getrag 265/6 with removable bellhousing, mounts, driveshaft, guibo, shifter, flywheel, clutch, just about every little part necessary. Transmission has high miles but shifts smoothly, Red Line MTL used exclusively for the last 150k miles. Driveshaft rebuilt by Driveline Services of Portland. $600 OBO. - -- 3.73 differential for E24 E28 E30, good condition, not limited slip, $200 OBO. - -- Blizzak snow tires on 14" BMW steel wheels with original E12 chrome hubcaps. See http://muskopf.com/fs_snowtires.html Asking $150. Email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] with questions or offers. Thanks! JamesM __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:32:54 -0500 From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Motronic 1.0 vs Motronic 1.2? Differences? I've stared at the wiring harness from a 750 for a bit before. Looks like it would be easier to make a new wiring harness to go from the existing sensors on an M20 to the connector on the new ECU than try to splice everything. (there's only a handfull of sensors on the motor anyway.) You'd probably need a custom chip, as you'd need some way of making the ECU happy being the only one there (custom chip should take care of this as far as I can tell). I don't really know any advantages other than the MAF part for a NA motor. injectors and fuel pressure are the same, so the ECU will be happy with that. I was interested in it as I'm told that the ECU has boost tables built into it. For the cost of the ECU and sensors from a 750 or 850, I'm thinking that the conversion would approach $1k. and for $1k, I'd rather have something a bit more advanced and tunable, like a haltech E6K or the likes. The only way to make this a worthwhile conversion would be to keep it in the $400 or less range. is this possible? - -Michael McCoy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Couvillon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: [uuc] Motronic 1.0 vs Motronic 1.2? Differences? > Boys and Girls, > > I did some reading in my Bosch Fuel Injection book by > Bentley Publishers (it's a bright blue book) yesterday > evening. I was looking through the L-Jet and LH-Jet > stuff and moved on to L-Motronic and LH-Motronic. I > realized that the LH-Motronic is very similar to the > L-Motronic with the exception, of course, of the MAF > and the ECU. . . these are the main differences, not > all. > > By the way, All US M20-powered e28s and e30s have > L-Motronic, which means it has an AFM and Motronic > engine management. > > For those of you that aren't familiar with this > nomenclature, the L-Motronic is basically an ECU to > control L-Jet fuel injection as well as ignition > timing. LH-Motronic is of course an ECU to control > LH-Jet and ignition mapping. > > The H stands for "hot wire" as I understand it, which > means the LH-Jet and LH-Motro has a MAF. > > The M70B50 (e32 750iL engine) has two Motronic 1.2 > ECUs (on pre-91s; later models had 1.7), two MAFs, two > throttle bodies, two air filters, yada x3. The big > thing here is that it's got Motronic 1.2 and a MAF. > > After re-reading some info on what SMiller's Dinan e30 > Turbo-owning friend did, I don't have a LOT more info, > but I do know that transplanting the LH-Motro stuff > into an L-Motro car is POSSIBLE, although difficult. > > I did about 4 hours of research on the internet and my > ETK last night, and all I found out was: > > * Motronic 1.2 has a three-row connector like Mot 1.1 > and 1.3 > * e32 750iL has two ECUs but only one wiring harness. > This means you would have to remove the parts of the > wiring harness that go to the second set of whatever. > * I could find no extra sensors attached to the 750 > wiring harness that would have to be added. Perhaps > Dinan Turbo e30 man has Motronic 1.7? > * 750iL uses the same exact injectors as the 325i. > * 750iL runs a 3 bar FPR that's a different FPR from > the 325i. > * 850CSi runs a different MAF from the 750iL; perhaps > this is a good upgrade to an already-LH-Motronicced > car > > This isn't much info, and I spent 3.5 hours finding > this crap out. There's a little more stuff I learned, > but it's not much either. Obviously, I don't want to > spend another 3.5 hours to find out what I need to > know, so I figured I'd ask the gurus on this board. > > * What exactly are the differences between Motronic > 1.0 and 1.2? > * What kind of chip is inside the Motronic 1.2 ECU? > * Does anyone have anywhere I can go to find out > exactly what is attached to the 750iL wiring harness > (I'm looking for ETM schematics, here)? > > I think that's about all I can think of right now. > Would anyone care to contribute? > > TIA! > > Brad "Shifty" Couvillon > '87 528e > www.fatdaddybmw.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6126 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
