[uucdigest] Saturday, February 22 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6135
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] E28 Engine Swap Re: [uuc] Rants (was stripper 5ers; E28 engines) [uuc] accident repair question [uuc] Habberstad BMW Re: [uuc] E28 Engine Swap [uuc] Owners knowing more than a pro? [uuc] Re: Homemade larger HFM tube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:29:43 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E28 Engine Swap You mean whole E28 M5s? Then why swap the engine, unless the car is wrecked. Dunno about the electronics. Gary Derian > Whole cars going in the Washington DC car lots for $6100. If it wasn't a > slow winter in the crime business, I'd have one. > > I need the OBC in my 7 series recalibrated (it can be changed, but not > to the degree to indicate 12 mpg) and the one in the E30 made to work > with a Euro S52 engine. Know anyone who can do that job? > > Ed > > Gary Derian wrote: > > >Good choice if you don't mind installing a $10,000 engine in a $5,000 car. > >I'd prefer a Chevy LS1. Its a bit more work, though, especially the > >electronics, and getting the OBC to work would be a real trick. > > > >Gary Derian > > > > > > > > > >>I'd take the engine that the E28 never saw, the '88 and '89 cammed one > >>from the E24 635CSi in the US. > >> > >>Ed > >> > >>mike wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>there are groups that believe the 533/633 motors were > >>>smoother revving and thus fun to drive. Having owned all of the above, > >>> > >>> > >I > > > > > >>>would take a 87/88 535i/is everytime. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:40:40 -0500 From: UUC Admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Rants (was stripper 5ers; E28 engines) Damn Rob! Here here! I'd be one of the 1st in line if you could hand me the keys to a brand new BMW that didn't have 193,000 electronic components and was built to drive. Actually I wouldn't mind an E46M3 lightweight with a shadowline package. (drool...) We need to get you locked in an elevator with a baseball bat and the president of the BMWNA :) Probably wouldn't work. In a tall tower in Stuttgart the Emperor shouts at Darth BMWNA and it echoes through the halls "Nein! Es gibt keine Spa�automobile f�r die Amerikaner! " At 09:45 AM 2/22/2003 -0500, you wrote: <snip> >Rant #1: Now I'm just like the next guy, I like the toys in a modern car ... <snip> >Rant #2: Why is BMW (and every manufacturer) so afraid to take intelligent >risks? <snip> >(extreme measures needed and taken to get the BMWs I really want!) Michael K Donohue System Administrator UUC Digest http://www.uucdigest.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:43:05 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] accident repair question Roland: Sorry to hear about the accident. Glad no one was hurt. Replacing E34 steering parts is probably good as the steering is pretty sloppy on these cars. There may be the side benefit of greatly tightened-up steering, specially if you go in and adjust the box as well. My only experience is painting my own cars, but if I were doing it I'd paint the entire bumper. It would be easier for me to leave the color boundary at the physical bumper-body boundary rather than on the bumper surface itself, where it is more easily seen. In fact, when I damaged my 88 iS bumper, I just painted the whole thing. It is a slightly different color from the rest of the body, but one doesn't notice because of the bumper surfaces are at right angles to the body surfaces at that point and are always lit differently. To apply paint properly, there is a wait between coats. I think _at least_ 15 mins between color coats, clear coats, sealer coats and primer coats. There's probably 2 hours there itself and then you need to let it cure overnight and come in and wet sand the thing a bit and then buff it out in a few stages. Also, you'd need some time to make up a batch of matching color and so on. In other words, 5 hours total is not bad. BTW, body work should bill lower than mechanical work per hour. When I took the body class the reasoning among those in the profession was that you could still drive you car w/ a dinged body, but not w/o a working suspension so body people could not command the prices that techs did. Neil Deshpande *** "Beaudette, Roland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anyway, the other car had some minor damage to the rear bumper where the wheel from our car scuffed their bumper. Went with the owner to a local paint/body shop to estimate the work. Considering the damage is slight, I was confused at the cost of the estimate. But bodyshop work being what it is maybe I shouldn't be. So the estimate was 2 hours labor (fill and sand damaged area) + 3.2 hours of painting (prep & paint whole bumper + blend to body). Would it be normal to paint & blend the whole bumper rather than paint and blend the damaged area? I'm not trying to shirk from the repair just paying more than necessary. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Habberstad BMW - --0-1543215333-1045931316=:4066 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Group, Any of our members living on/near Long Island, NY have any experience with Habberstad BMW? I live in NH, and am interested in a CPO car they have. They'll be sending me pics, etc., but I just wanted to know overall how any of you rate your dealings with them. Anyone in LI want to take a peek at a car for me??? Appreciate the input, Neil - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more - --0-1543215333-1045931316=:4066 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <P>Group,</P> <P>Any of our members living on/near Long Island, NY have any experience with Habberstad BMW? I live in NH, and am interested in a CPO car they have. They'll be sending me pics, etc., but I just wanted to know overall how any of you rate your dealings with them.</P> <P>Anyone in LI want to take a peek at a car for me???</P> <P>Appreciate the input,</P> <P>Neil</P><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/finance/mailtagline/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/";>Yahoo! Tax Center</a> - forms, calculators, tips, and more - --0-1543215333-1045931316=:4066-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:35:23 -0500 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E28 Engine Swap No, I mean whole 88 and 89 635CSi. Gary Derian wrote: >You mean whole E28 M5s? Then why swap the engine, unless the car is >wrecked. Dunno about the electronics. > >Gary Derian > > > > >>Whole cars going in the Washington DC car lots for $6100. If it wasn't a >>slow winter in the crime business, I'd have one. >> >>I need the OBC in my 7 series recalibrated (it can be changed, but not >>to the degree to indicate 12 mpg) and the one in the E30 made to work >>with a Euro S52 engine. Know anyone who can do that job? >> >>Ed >> >>Gary Derian wrote: >> >> >> >>>Good choice if you don't mind installing a $10,000 engine in a $5,000 >>> >>> >car. > > >>>I'd prefer a Chevy LS1. Its a bit more work, though, especially the >>>electronics, and getting the OBC to work would be a real trick. >>> >>>Gary Derian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'd take the engine that the E28 never saw, the '88 and '89 cammed one >>>> >>>> >>>>from the E24 635CSi in the US. >>> >>> >>>>Ed >>>> >>>>mike wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>there are groups that believe the 533/633 motors were >>>>>smoother revving and thus fun to drive. Having owned all of the >>>>> >>>>> >above, > > >>>>> >>>>> >>>I >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>would take a 87/88 535i/is everytime. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:54:54 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Owners knowing more than a pro? Kirk: Perhaps we are both guilty of excessive generosity in our opinion of those such as ourselves. You in judging that all techs, or even the majority of techs, know more about their customers' cars than any of their customers simply because you do and I in assuming that all owners are as tenacious as I am in gathering information about their cars before working on them. That truth is somewhere in between, but diplomatic statements of it are so much less likely to focus thought. At any rate, one failure should not discourage an owner from working on his/her car. We 'humans' must rise about the cat that, once burned by hot milk, shies away from cold water. Neil Deshpande *** "Eurowerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The last statement on your post implies that a vehicle owner knows more about their car than a professional? This is discouraging to hear. I would be willing to wager, using the burned car as an example (E30), that there is no way that any of my 1000 plus clients knows more about their cars than I know about their cars. Now, they may know more about that little annoying squeak, or the little idiosyncrasies that come with each different car, but not overall. Think about what you said. I can see what you are saying, because they spend more time with the car, but no chance that they will actually know MORE about the vehicle overall than a professional tech. If this were the case, why would any of us need a repair facility to go to? Back to the example car, if the customer had just taken the car in for service, almost no chance the car would have burned. Any qualified tech could have looked at the parts being used and known better than use a coolant o-ring on a fuel component. Even if the car did burn, the customer would be out minimal due to the insurance claim buying them a new one or repairing the original. The way it is, he may get nothing! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:59:18 -0500 From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Homemade larger HFM tube on 2/21/03 4:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What oem fuel pressure regulators from other models or euro spec engines > can be swapped directly into an E36 //M3 (OBDII), us spec? > > I've seen Dinan and others list higher 'special' fuel pressure regulators in > Euro HFM conversions, but these are only other factory fprs form other models. > Of course they won't tell which model unless you buy the parts. > > So if someone would spill the beans on what to plug into my 97 //M3, I'm sure > others would take interest too. > > Btw, purpose is to match the increased airflow with a larger HFM tube that I > made. Seeing Dinan's beautiful craft$man$hip on larger tubes for the //M5, it > seemed worth a try to make a new tube for HFM sensor on what I have. I used 3 > 1/4 inner diameter plastic pipe and the rubber of a 3" plumbing clamp coupler. <much plumbing detail snipped> I'm not going to comment on the plumbing adaptation you came up with, since that's mostly a matter of opinion. For one person it'll be a display of admirable Yankee ingenuity (my apologies if you're from below the Mason-Dixon Line), for another it's a hideous bodge on what used to be a carefully engineered and built system. However I do have concerns about some of the underlying assumptions to the project as you describe it. There was an extensive thread on the E36 Digest a few weeks ago concerning the application of the larger Euro HFM to the OBD-II (96 model year and later) E36 M3. Conventional wisdom is that it doesn't get you anything, due to the other restrictions in the stock intake system. However as you know, Dinan does offer this modification. Now because of their stratospheric pricing I don't buy Dinan stuff, but I certainly wouldn't knock their engineering capabilities. I've come to suspect that there might be at least small benefit to be had, but that the bang for the buck makes it attractive only to the end of the market that doesn't care about price. Which is of course exactly where Dinan plays. To see why just slapping a less restrictive AFM on the OBD-II M3 may be like putting running shoes on a tortoise, surf on over to: http://www.bmw-m.net/techdata/m50vsm52.htm and check out the intake manifold sizes and flow rates. Unfortunately while the OBD-I intake manifold will bolt up to the OBD-II head, the rest of its plumbing won't. To see the kind of hardware and adapters required to make that happen, look at the Eurosport/Conforti OBD-II Cam System parts shown at: http://www.sharked.com/cams.html Finally, your ECU isn't calibrated for the Euro HFM's output. You are hoping to use a higher fuel pressure in combination with the ECU's adaptation ability to fool the system into working acceptably. This assumes that you can somehow guess how the Euro HFM differs from the stock AFM, and then offset that with some value of higher fuel pressure regulator. Any resulting mismatch or non-linearity will have to be handled by adaptation. Unless you can justify this from the mass airflow vs. output curves for each AFM his seems to me like the longest of long shots. This should properly all be done in software, based on extensive dyno testing, which of course is what Jim Conforti and Dinan each do. Bear in mind that the downside to your approach may not be limited to some wasted time and money for not much effect (either way). You are also putting your very expensive engine at risk. > According to the stopwatch, 60 to eight times in third are slightly > increased, possibly half a tenth of a second. I assume you mean "improved," otherwise your car is getting slower! > Flame away at me if you will, or give it a try if you're curious. > For $8., an Exacto Knife blade, and a few hours work, its worth the effort. No flame, but why is it worth the effort? So far you have maybe $300-400 in the project, depending on how/where you sourced the Euro HFM, and the most minor, if any, performance improvement. Is it carpe diem or caveat emptor <g> Neil 96 M3 Neil 96 M3 ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6135 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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