[uucdigest] Wednesday, February 26 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6146
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Oil Loss in S50 Re: [uuc] Ice Racing in Texas, Anyone? [uuc] Re: Typo? Was <E28> Ongoing Idle Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming [uuc] re: fuel filters [uuc] <E28> Ongoing Idle / Stalling Issues..Timing Adjustment... [uuc] Re: Custom Chip Programming RE: [uuc] Re: Custom Chip Programming Re: [uuc] Re: Custom Chip Programming Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:14:17 +1000 From: "Kim Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Oil Loss in S50 If this is an S50B30 you're talking about then we have experienced similar symptoms when valve guides and/or oil control rings get worn..... Kim H - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, 26 February 2003 1:26 Subject: [uuc] Oil Loss in S50 >My car seems to be burning way to much oil lately, 1+ quart every 1k. I >am unable to find any leaks, I found a tiny bit of oil on the head >behind the t-stat housing, but it appeared to be minute. The Valve >cover gasket seems to be good. Under the car looks good. Anyone have >any thoughts or suggestions? >Thanks >Chris > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:19:35 -0500 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Ice Racing in Texas, Anyone? HEY! We have a patent on Ice Racing up here in the northern states -- you'll need to get special permission to run an event in Texas! See you on the ice, Stan Jackson Jr. Ice Racing Coordinator Boston Chapter BMW CCA Member White Mt. Chapter From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Just saw the news report of the snow/ice storm in Texas. Maybe you Texas > guys could get in a couple of ice races before it melts? > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA > > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:17:54 -0800 From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Typo? Was <E28> Ongoing Idle I change my fuel filter at every Inspection I and II. An Inspection I or II comes up on the service interval indicator every second cycle through the LEDs. In other words, after one cycle I get Oil Service, and after the next cycle I get Inspection. It takes me in the neighborhood of 9,000 to 10,000 miles to get through one cycle of the indicator LEDs. Therefore, I'm changing my fuel filter about every 20K miles. I guess I'm just lucky to be getting good gas that doesn't totally clog up the filter by 15K miles, eh? This is why people often include a YMMV disclaimer in their posts, I guess. Scott >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:59:24 -0800 (PST) >From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [uuc] Typo? Was <E28> Ongoing Idle / Stalling Issues..Back from the Wrench > >I think it's 12,000, Scott. Bentley says it somewhere >in lube and maintenance. Maybe it's in the Inspection >I table? > >Brad Couvillon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:27:00 -0500 From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming I've been looking to do the same thing for a while now. Most people just tell me "get a Jim C chip" or the likes. then I tell them that i want more fuel and greatly retarded timing. then they look at me funny. then they find out I have a turbo strapped to the side of my M20. Nobody makes a chip for my application. So when I did my research on this, I found out a decent amount. what I do know is: - -the eprom in question is a 27256 (27C256?) - -it is easily emulated. (black box outside the ecu plugged into the ECU slot for the eprom, and can have its values changed on the fly) - -cost to build a good emulator is about $50. - -cost to buy a good one is between $100 and $200. depending on how fancy you want it to be. - -cost for software to edit the values in the emulator, free. (tons of open source stuff out there) - -Knowing what values in the tables do what... priceless. nobody wants to share this info. chances are I could figure it out eventually, but what a pain in the ass. I then went and looked at standalone fuel systems, and combining that with something like a standalone MSD ignition box. put that setup together and you are getting into Tec3 and Haltech price range. around $1000. and for that money, I'd rather have a haltech E6K. so now i'm back to fighting to get a turbo M20 to run right with a good amount of boost. as it stands now, its far from perfect. 2.7L M20 motor with 8.5:1 CR running 10psi of boost. For a while, when it was really cold outside, I was able to trick it into running just over 14psi on the 2.5L M20 with water injection. That was perhaps the only time it ran great. Its had plenty of good days, but not as many great ones. That day really showed me its true potential. Its not too often that you can make a M20 powered E34 smoke the tires rolling into 3rd gear in a straight line. I'm all for experimentation. I'm willing to put in the time to do something like this, but nobody that knows anything wants to provide any proper guidance, which is rather frustrating. At least with the turbo I could look at what others had done on things like supras and the likes and get ideas. Even ask questions and get feedback on ideas. No such luck with the ECU programming idea. The only person that has been willing to give any information has been Mark D'Sylva. He was actually extremely helpful with my initial questions. I don't think that he'd be willing to send a list of "these values control this" though. (apparently he does his chips manually with a hex editor.) I graduate from Georgia Tech in a couple of months, and when I get a job, I don't think I'll be as willing to play/fight with this stuff. I'll just shell out the money for a proper standalone ECU. Which is sad because I definately won't learn as much doing that. The annoying part is that I'll have another degree in CS, and so this stupid little motronic ECU is, in the grand scale of things, not that complicated. but there is no information out there for me to start with. - -Michael McCoy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Couvillon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming > Gruppe, > > This line of questioning applies to any Motronic 1.x > ECU. Before I begin, please keep in mind that I'm a > Finance major and have no engineering background > whatsoever. Anyway. . . > > I'm looking for information on burning my own chip. > What I'm specifically looking for at the moment is a > way to hook a laptop up to the ECU so that I can see > what's happening at a specific point in time with > certain conditions. > > The biggest piece of this puzzle, I believe, is > fabbing up an emulator to plug in to the ECU so that I > can make changes to the "chip" on the fly. The only > products that I've seen that allow on-the-fly chip > tuning cost four figures. I'm looking for something > much, much cheaper; something that I can maybe make on > my own. > > I already know the processor type (80C515; thanks Jim > C!) and chip type (Intel 2732, 24-pin; thanks Mark > D!), as well as the basics on how I need to go about > doing this. The problem I'm having is finding either > a) a cheap emulator that will work with a 24-pin 2732 > chip or b) some type of guide to building my own > emulator. I would prefer option B as I'm more > interested in learning, at this point, than I am about > actually accomplishing anything. > > Has anyone any experience on this subject? Perhaps > someone knows where I can locate this information? > > I've already done about 12 hours' worth of searching > through the DIY EFI (www.diy-efi.org) archives over > the past week, which is how I've learned what I have > at the moment. > > I'm not looking for someone to give me a step-by-step > guide here. I'm more looking for someone to point me > in the right direction. > > Thanks in advance! > > Brad Couvillon > '87 528e > www.fatdaddybmw.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:30:15 -0700 From: "Tim Pfister" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] re: fuel filters What? You mean they are SUPPOSED to be changed? Just trying to change the tone.:) Tim Pfister ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:57:45 -0500 From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E28> Ongoing Idle / Stalling Issues..Timing Adjustment... Hi Russel, Really? You cant adjust timing on an M30 engine? So I guess the car advances and retards timing as it needs it? Wow.. Never knew that. I just assumed that when my wrench said tune up, he meant timing as well, since that is a standard ingredient most of the time.. . Thanks Ron J - ----- Original Message ----- From: "russelc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:54 PM Subject: RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <E28> Ongoing Idle / Stalling Issues.. Post New FPR.. > On Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:10 PM, Ron J [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hi All. > > > Snip > > > > My wrench friend also said that I will notice a major difference with the > > valves adjusted, timing, and new plugs, which I totally agree on. > > Theres no way to adjust timing, unless you reporgram the DME. > > RussC > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Custom Chip Programming On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Chris Baker wrote: > I don't think "hacker" and "hack" equate quite the way you imply. > Seems to me that the original poster was quite interested in > learning the fundamentals as much as possible, and looking for any > tips that may help speed up the process. I, for one, am mighty > impressed with the initiative. What the hell has he got to lose? Indeed. A hacker (in technology anyway) is one who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities. (courtesy of the New Hacker's Dictionary) In our case here, a hacker learns by poking, prodding, guessing, and reverse engineering when the manuals are hard to come by or nonexistent. The engineer is the same guy with all the manuals, design specs, and circuit diagrams. :) - -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:23:20 -0500 From: "Matt Malfa * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: Custom Chip Programming - -----Original Message----- From: John Bolhuis >The engineer is the same guy with all the >manuals, design specs, and circuit diagrams. :) That, and a degree. - - -Matt <borrowed and slightly modified from The Big Lebowski> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:08:29 -0500 From: James Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Custom Chip Programming You all win. Hackers are great. Any Joe can rewrite a Bosch ECU and isn't wasting time or money doing so. Jim Moran '88 M6 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Indeed. A hacker (in technology anyway) is one who enjoys exploring > the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their > capabilities. (courtesy of the New Hacker's Dictionary) > In our case here, a hacker learns by poking, prodding, guessing, and > reverse engineering when the manuals are hard to come by or > nonexistent. The engineer is the same guy with all the manuals, > design specs, and circuit diagrams. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:18:42 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Custom Chip Programming Andre, Your comments were very helpful and cleared up much of the jargon for me. Thank you! What it looks like I'm going to need is a ROM emulator. I saw one for about $175 called the ROMuLator or something silly like that. Looks like it could work, but I feel like I can cobble some parts together and do it for about half that. That's what I'm looking for: a sub-$100 ROM emulator. As for having this thing around all of the heat in the engine bay, this is where I'm lucky. My e28 has the ECU in the glove compartment. All I'll have to do is open the glove compartment, boot the laptop, and get started. I can store everything in the glove box. On reverse engineering everything and figuring out pinouts, this is where my ETM will come in very handy. For both my current ECU, as well as the one I plan to have installed in my car around August or September of this year, I have an ETM which has been most helpful in figuring out which ECU connector pins go where. Thanks again for the info! Brad Couvillon - --- Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Brad Couvillon wrote: > > I already know the processor type (80C515; thanks > Jim > > C!) and chip type (Intel 2732, 24-pin; thanks Mark > > D!), as well as the basics on how I need to go > about > > doing this. The problem I'm having is finding > either > > a) a cheap emulator that will work with a 24-pin > 2732 > > chip or b) some type of guide to building my own > > emulator. I would prefer option B as I'm more > > interested in learning, at this point, than I am > about > > actually accomplishing anything. > > Brad, I'm not sure what you're asking for here since > the term emulator > could be equally applied to either the processor or > the EPROM (the 2732). > An emulator for the processor, or an ICE (In-Circuit > Emulator) is going to > be very expensive, and isn't really a DIY project. > A ROM (or EPROM) > emulator is cheaper (less than $200 usually), but > unless you're just > tweaking values in the ROM, it won't help you > reverse-engineer the ECU > code. > > Just to clarify the terms: > > ICE, or in-circuit emulator, is a device that plugs > into where the CPU > chip normally goes, and pretends to be the CPU. You > can debug the CPU > code very precisely with such a device, and > reverse-engineer the program > contained in the ROM, since you can essentially > single-step the CPU's > execution, examine memory, halt, etc. Since it > emulates the CPU, it's a > very specific device that can only debug a small set > of CPUs. Such a > device would plug into where the 80C515 goes. I > assume the 80C515 is > soldered onto the motherboard, and so you'd have to > desolder it, and > solder on an adapter to which the emulator can > attach. > > The ROM or EPROM emulator plugs into where the ROM > or EPROM chip (the 2732 > in your case) goes, and pretends to be the ROM or > EPROM. This is a useful > device because you don't need to spend time erasing > and reprogramming your > EPROM every time you make a code change or fix a > bug. You download a > program to the ROM emulator (which is quick compared > to erasing and > reprogramming), and you can immediately start > running it. As with an ICE, > you will probably need to remove the original 2732, > and solder on an > adapter. > > I have no idea how happy these things will be in an > engine bay with all > that extra heat and RF flying around. I'd suggest > as an initial step to > doing this, reading out the ECU code, and > disassembling, commenting and > fully understanding how it works. To do this, you > will have to figure out > which sensors, controls, etc. connect to which I/O > pins on the CPU or > board. And then, you should need just a ROM reader, > and to desolder the > 2732 from the motherboard, and a multimeter and > service manual to figure > out the I/O connections. Just hope that they didn't > scramble the address > and data line layouts to mess with people who may be > peeking inside their > ECUs. > > --Andre > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6146 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
