[uucdigest] Wednesday, March 5 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6178
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Mazda autocross competition [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets RE: [uuc] WA state to regulate racing schools [uuc] Reconstructing Ashley Bergman's fatal collision (formerly WA state to regulate racing schools) Re: [uuc] Reconstructing Ashley Bergman's fatal collision (formerly WA state to regulate racing schools) RE: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets Re: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets Re: [uuc] Re: Lightnings and other fast Fords [uuc] Bin-end Bimmers RE: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets [uuc] RE: Lightenings and other Fast Fords [uuc] Re: <E28> will 17" wheels found a set ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:43:13 -0500 From: "Lin Gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Mazda autocross competition http://www.mazdarevitup.com/home.asp In those new Sixes, coming to a major city maybe near you. $39, 18+. I've got session 12, Sat. 7/27 in DC. Gary Lin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:25:54 -0800 From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets re: inexpensive helmets There was a saying I heard when I went shopping for my first helmet. It was, "Cheap helmets for cheap heads." I'm glad I listened. Never tested my car helmet, but on the bike,when I got run down by a car, I'm glad I had a top of the line Bell on my head instead of some $29.95 bargain brand. 'jk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:38:01 +0100 From: "Ulf Bertilsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] WA state to regulate racing schools Less is good :D - -- Ulf - -----Original Message----- From: Gary Derian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] WA state to regulate racing schools I prefer fewer laws, but less laws are good also. Gary Derian > You're preaching to the choir. I'm a libertarian. The less laws the better > (up to a point). > > Marco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:40:56 -0600 From: "Al Buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Reconstructing Ashley Bergman's fatal collision (formerly WA state to regulate racing schools) That you, Erick, for the reference to Ashley Bergman's memorial web page. It's pretty scary that one, isolated incident has the potential to affect an entire industry statewide. A technical point... The web page describes the incident as follows: "Bergman was coming out of a turn and evidently hit the throttle instead of the brake. The car spun and pitched her into a concrete wall at approximately 40 to 50 mph." Folks, am I missing something, or are the words "throttle" and "brake" in the wrong places? Is it really possible to induce a spin by accelerating hard out of a corner, without first letting off the throttle? Al Buchanan Chicago, IL 1984 633 CSi - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:02:55 -0800 From: Erick Baumeister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] WA state to regulate racing schools (part 2) Lots of information on Ashley Bergman and the incident at Competitive Edge Racing School: http://www.adhconsulting.com/ashleybergman/main.htm Erick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:48:16 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Reconstructing Ashley Bergman's fatal collision (formerly WA state to regulate racing schools) Al Buchanan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > A technical point... The web page describes the incident as follows: > "Bergman was coming out of a turn and evidently hit the throttle instead of > the brake. The car spun and pitched her into a concrete wall at > approximately 40 to 50 mph." Folks, am I missing something, or are the > words "throttle" and "brake" in the wrong places? Is it really possible to > induce a spin by accelerating hard out of a corner, without first letting > off the throttle? Absolutely that's possible. Throttle-induced oversteer is a reality (just not in any car I own :). I'm surprised that a 50 mph impact killed her, though. Sounds like the car could have used better safety equipment. - - Mark - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:48:07 -0500 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets jk wrote: >re: inexpensive helmets >There was a saying I heard when I went shopping for my first helmet. It was, "Cheap helmets for cheap heads." I'm glad I listened. Never tested my car helmet, but on the bike,when I got run down by a car, I'm glad I had a top of the line Bell on my head instead of some $29.95 bargain brand. __________________ JK, with all due respect, you're citing one isolated incident in your personal experience. How exactly do you know that some $30 bargain brand helmet wouldn't have afforded you exactly the same level of protection? For the record, I wear a nice Arai Signet/e motorcycle helmet (~$400) and just picked up an SA2000 Bell M2 (~$500) for track use. BUT. I question the old saying, "if you've got a $100 head, wear a $100 helmet". If we all followed that clich�, we'd all be wearing top-of-the-line helmets, three-layer racing suits, HANS devices, nomex gloves, boots, balaclava, socks and underwear. All of our cars would have full roll cages and fire supression systems and 6 point FIA grade restraints. Where do you draw the line? Would you be better off buying a $100 helmet instead of a $500 helmet, and use the $400 savings toward better brake pads and fluid? How about saving it and using it for a Skip Barber class? Each and every one of us has to decide where to draw the line, in terms of safety v. expense. That's why we have standards, Snell standards in particular. A $120 helmet that meets the Snell SA2000 standard should be nearly as safe as a $500 helmet; for all we know, it could be even safer. Cost alone is not a valid measure of safety. Just my $.02 vty, - --Dennis (FWIW, I wear the "expensive" helmets solely because they are the only one available that fit my large noggin.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:56:25 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets Dennis Liu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > JK, with all due respect, you're citing one isolated incident in your > personal experience. How exactly do you know that some $30 bargain brand > helmet wouldn't have afforded you exactly the same level of protection? When I went to buy a Nomex driving suit, I looked at a lot of different options in a lot of price ranges. I eventually opted for an $800 Sparco suit. Why? If I'm ever trapped in a burning race car, I don't want my last though to be "damn, I wish I'd spent a little more on this suit." A high-quality helmet is cheap insurance. - - Mark - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:58:46 -0800 From: John Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Lightnings and other fast Fords > So one can build a 6 liter V-12 from two 300+ hp 6s or two 220 hp 6s. And what your design goals are depend, also, on whether you're pushing a 2200lb car or a 4000lb car, whether you can afford $40K, $10K (or $1200) per unit, and whether you're building 200 units or 5000 (or 50000.) What does McLaren get for a new V12 if you pop one, anyway? How many spares did BMW M build for them? A recent issue of one of the Brit mags had an interview with Gordon Murray, in which he slags off a lot of the recent supercars notably the Audi efforts (the Murc and especially the 1000HP Bugatti) as being not worth the effort - basically that no matter how much HP they carry, their 3500lb weight and 4WD make them less desirable than the F1. Speaking of lightweight cars, I think I'll go back to the Radical website (http://www.radicalsportscars.com) and continue rubbing the rabbit's foot... John. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:00:48 -0000 From: "Andrew Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Bin-end Bimmers John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: "Somewhat BMW-related content: in Germany you get in a taxicab it's an E-class Benz. Okay, it's a 2.3-liter diesel with MB-Tex and that diarrhea-yellow paint that Benz used to sell to Americans back in the '70s and '80s, but it's an E-class, and it's got the structure and chassis of any E-class. Same goes with a 520i BMW. Slow and short on power options and the upholstery won't make you feel rich, but the car is solid and well-built and will go down the road all day long with the right pedal on the floor." I agree, base-model 5s have an appeal - especially at barely �20k new out of the door. That's a huge amount of car for the money. The short-stroke six is down on torque compared to every other 5, but 140 top whack and 25 sec to 100 mph is quicker than any cabbie will need. Even the spec is OK these days (alloys, Rob-friendly manual air, electric windows, 50 airbags). Maybe this is closer to the traditional BMW motoring ideal than a 525i Sport with rock-hard suspension, huge wheels and all the fruit for �10k more. Yet buyers of these BMWs are often castigated for their choice. Andy T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 18:12:42 -0500 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] re: inexpensive helmets Mark wrote: >When I went to buy a Nomex driving suit, I looked at a lot of different options in a lot of price ranges. I eventually opted for an $800 Sparco suit. Why? >If I'm ever trapped in a burning race car, I don't want my last though to be "damn, I wish I'd spent a little more on this suit." >A high-quality helmet is cheap insurance. ______________ If ever my car rolls over and the roof collapses, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had installed a full roll cage." If ever my brakes fail and I slam into the wall, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had installed a full Brembo ceramic/carbon brake upgrade kit." If ever my car bursts into flame, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had worn $150 nomex gloves so I could have released my fittings and escaped." If ever my car slams into a wall, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had installed a HANS device and kept my neck from snapping." If ever my car slides off the road and into a wall, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had installed a complete set of new sticker slicks for each and every session so I have maximum grip." If ever the tail of my car gets light and snaps me around into a wall, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had installed a giant rear wing to cut down on lift in the rear end." If ever I hit the wall in a frontal collision, I don't want my last thought to be, "damn, I wish I had installed a full carbon racing seat that wouldn't have snapped in two." Sorry to be flip about this -- my point isn't that drivers shouldn't be very, very considerate of their safety (and the people around them), but rather that safety at all costs is a foolish proposition. We're not all driving full racing cars, we're not all wearing absolute top of the line safety gear, and we don't have every possible safety device in the world. Why? For various reasons, mostly cost but also practicality and performance. Mark, so you've gotten a $800 nomex suit to protect yourself against being trapped in a burning car. Tell me, do you have a fire supression system installed? Wouldn't that also help protect you from burning to death? It's not that much more expensive than a good driving suit, and better than just having a fire extinguisher mounted in the passenger footwell. If you don't have one, why did you draw the line at the suit but not the fire system? vty, - --Dennis (who wears his expensive helmet, nomex suit, nomex gloves, nomex boots, nomex collar and six point belts in a street car with a fire supression system -- but no racing seat, no roll bar/cage, and no HANS device). . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:14:03 -0800 From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Lightenings and other Fast Fords John says: "There's now a Quaife listing for the (deutscher) Mini Cooper, which makes it a tempting prospect. I'll never own FWD again without a limited-slip." I'm curious, what does a limited slip (gear type or plate type) do for torque steer? First thoughts are that it would make it worse? But then John implies FWD is better with. - -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:20:56 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: <E28> will 17" wheels found a set Hi Ron, TSW makes some of the nicest looking wheels I've seen. I especially like the Hockenheim Rs. But they're famous for being a little soft. A GGCer with an E30 has a set on his car, and every time he gets near a curb, the rim bends. OK, so maybe he hit the curb a little harder than you or I would a couple of times. Anyway, if you have problems with potholes or hitting curbs, I would avoid against the TSWs. Otherwise they're good looking wheels. Which Dunlop tires are they? I especially liked my SP8000s - grippy, great turn-in and transient response, and no tramlining (on my slightly lowered E30). The SP9000s are supposedly the same carcass as the 8000s, but with a rain tread pattern. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:53:03 -0500 >From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] <E28> will 17" wheels found a set > >Seems I found a set of wheels including tires for $1000 Canadian (approx 700 >USD) They are TSW wheels, all aluminum.. nice and light.. One piece, with >Dunlop SP Sport 225 45ZR17 tires mounted on them. The rims are new, and the >tires only have about 300 miles on them. I think its a deal. > >The rim style is TSW Blade. Nice wheel. They are brand new, so the holes >and the machining has to be done tommorrow, and I should have them on the >car by Friday > >Anyone ever run these before? > >Cheers >Ron J >85 535i >73 911s 2.7 ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6178 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
