[uucdigest] Thursday, March 27 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6250
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH [uuc] OBC relay box location on a stalling 1984 euro-spec 635i? RE: [uuc] OBC relay box location on a stalling 1984 euro-spec 635i? Re: [uuc] [E36] street/track pads RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH Re: [uuc] Re: Now Motronic adaptability [uuc] Re: Now Motronic adaptability [uuc] FOR SALE: HELLA HORNS PART NUMBER 85315 RE: [uuc] [E36] street/track pads ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:36:44 -0500 From: Steven Schlossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH At 3:35 PM -0500 3/26/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >That's OK. The majority of the people I work with have _never_ >waxed their >cars - and these are definitely not 300k mile beaters. You wax your car? I wax it once a year before Ofest. - -- ...steven MINI Links http://www.happytogether.com/minilinks/ 318ti Registry http://www.happytogether.com/318ti/registry/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:05:37 -0800 From: Zenon Holtz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] OBC relay box location on a stalling 1984 euro-spec 635i? Hi All, Can anyone tell me exactly where to look for the OBC anti-theft relay box on a 1984 (euro-spec) 635i? I am trying to help a friend solve a sudden engine cut-out problem. The car runs perfectly, then the engine will quit suddenly and abruptly. The car will then start normally again and continue on for another 20 or 200 miles before doing it again. The abruptness makes the failure seem electrical in origin. He has already replaced the main relay and the fuel pump relay with no change in symptoms. I suspect the anti-theft function of the OBC is the cause, since it controls power to the engine computer and I have read that bad solder joints or burned circuit board traces in OBC relay boxes are often a problem. I will inspect and re-solder/repair the PCB, assuming I can find the box. All help is appreciated and any further suggestions on where to look for the cause of the problem will be greatfully received. regards, Zenon 1972 & 1973 2002, Weller WTCP Soldering Station. British Columbia '02 Owner's Group: http://www.zeebuck.com/02bc/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:33:21 -0500 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] OBC relay box location on a stalling 1984 euro-spec 635i? The 84 does not have the OBC system that you've read about. It has a display unit with a remote OBC computer, that controls all the functions, including those of the "relay box" of the later unit. This computer is directly above the drivers knees, a large silver box with two long connectors, one yellow, the other black. In order to isolate this as being the problem, you'll need to unplug the box and jump the two wires that kill the ignition. Not sure which ones they are off the top of my head, but you can either email me via the tech request section of my site, or look through the archives, Fuerst had posted about bypassing this OBC module on his 84 733i. The car will not start with the box unplugged, you must jump the appropriate pair of wires. - ----------------------------------------------------- BMW Special Tool Rentals Pay per incident tech support - ----------------------------------------------------- Brett Anderson KMS (440) 338 1650 www.koalamotorsport.com OSS committee member > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zenon Holtz > Can anyone tell me exactly where to look for the OBC anti-theft relay box > on a 1984 (euro-spec) 635i? > I am trying to help a friend solve a sudden engine cut-out > problem. The car > runs perfectly, then the engine will quit suddenly and abruptly. The car > will then start normally again and continue on for another 20 or 200 miles > before doing it again. The abruptness makes the failure seem electrical in > origin. He has already replaced the main relay and the fuel pump relay > with no change in symptoms. > I suspect the anti-theft function of the OBC is the cause, since it > controls power to the engine computer and I have read that bad solder > joints or burned circuit board traces in OBC relay boxes are often a > problem. I will inspect and re-solder/repair the PCB, assuming I can find > the box. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:42:44 -0800 From: Jim Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] [E36] street/track pads At 12:06 PM 3/26/03, M Kittock talked about: >I hope to run 4 DEs this year (only did one last year). So I'm not looking >for a pure race pad, but one I can drive on year round. But I'm not >opposed to swapping pads before and after events, just a but lazy about >it... I ran the PF90 (now PF97) on my M3 for 3+ years of driving schools, swapping them in and out. Pads were very good on track, squealed like stuck pigs on the street :-) With practice, you can get a 4-wheel pad change down to under 30 minutes. Small amount of time to have good braking at the track. IMO, YMMV, PDCC, yada^3 Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 A5/JP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:04:30 -0500 From: "Andy Messer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH C'mon, Lee. Don't you remember the commercials?? Space-aged polymers used to make a once-a-year car wax - NuFinish! They even simulated 1 year's worth of car washes (52, IIRC) AND IT STILL BEADS!!!! You can even apply in direct sunlight. This is funny. I just went to the nufinish website and they have an E46 on their home page. Andy 88 iX 88 FJ62 LandCruiser <-- about to get its once-a-year car polish. Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:52:13 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] JACKASSES AT THE CAR WASH What's this washing cars thing everybody's talking about? I seem to barely have enough time to keep the damn things running, none the less wash them. Lee 88M3->comes back from Tim Ng shiny.... 01 Saab 9-3SE->one of them, unwaxed, cars..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:36:17 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Now Motronic adaptability The air flow sensor goes full open before full power. Above this point, changes to the air flow go unnoticed. Gary Derian > That depends on how airflow is measured. My knowledge of E30's is > extremely limited, but if the E30 has a mass airflow meter it won't go > lean. The increased airflow will be measured and simply result in > selecting a higher cell on the fuel map. If the E30 infers (rather than > measures) air mass entering the engine based on RPM, Load, Air temp, > Barometric pressure, etc. then mods that improve the volumetric > efficiency will cause the engine to go lean because it can't tell that > more air is flowing. > For a MAF system the basic process is this: > 1) The MAF reports the actual mass air flow. > 2) The DME looks at the fuel map and determines the appropriate amount > of fuel to deliver for that airflow under the current conditions. > 3) If applicable, a correction factor is applied to the commanded fuel. > The correction factor has no effect on what value is selected from the > fuel map, so it can only fine tune, not compensate for gross errors. > > Brian > > John Bolhuis wrote: > > > I've been puzzling over this for some time. I think it was Alex F > >who successfully argued me into believing that there is no full > >throttle adaptation (e30 motronic era) and that the safest setting > >possible for open-loop operation was the motronic's stored fuel map > >known to produce adequate results. > > Yet this means that engine breathing improvements (everything from > >cone filter on up the scale), if successful, result in nothing but a > >leaner full throttle fuel mixture, which is only good if it was too > >rich to begin with, and quite possibly worse as it leans out toward > >stoichiometric. > > But then, many of my opinions are formed with incomplete information, > >so set me straight. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:31:39 -0800 (PST) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Now Motronic adaptability On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Brian Daley wrote: > That depends on how airflow is measured. My knowledge of E30's is > extremely limited, but if the E30 has a mass airflow meter it > won't go lean. The increased airflow will be measured and simply > result in selecting a higher cell on the fuel map. If the E30 > infers (rather than measures) air mass entering the engine based > on RPM, Load, Air temp, Barometric pressure, etc. then mods that > improve the volumetric efficiency will cause the engine to go lean > because it can't tell that more air is flowing. Yeah, that last thing. The e30 AFM is wide open above 3000RPM or so (at full throttle), and fuel is delivered solely on RPM input. At full throttle operation in the top half of the RPM range, the motronic's only input is RPM. - -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:35:47 -0800 From: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] FOR SALE: HELLA HORNS PART NUMBER 85315 One set of Hella Horns that generate 115db of 'scare'. These are the kind that you see in Griot's all the time. I was going to put them on Ebay, but would like to offer them to my fellow BMW comrades before doing so. They are in their original Hella box and include both horns, mounting brackets, instructions and relay. Price: $50 + shipping. Chris http://www.inlacal.com 89 M3 01 X5 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:18:20 -0500 From: "Money, Jack (J.J.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [E36] street/track pads Hi Mark, The brake pad discussion comes up a lot here and there is usually pretty good information shared. I'll offer some info based on my experiences and those of my friends and customers. The first thing is to determine what you expect of the pad. There is no true dual duty pad...at least not that I've ever seen. You will always compromise something for something else. If you want a pad that works well for light to medium track duty then you will have dust, some squealing, and increased wear on the street. If you want a pad that works well on the street, light on dust, quiet, etc, then you will give up performance and cause increased wear at the track. Somewhere in the middle you're giving up a little of both and this may be the ticket for you. Or, since you're not opposed to swapping pads, a track pad may be the way to go. I have customers who've run the Hawk HP+ on the track and have experienced fading immediately. A lot of this depends on braking style. If you're going out to the track and running at an intermediate level or more you're probably ready to try a track pad. In this case I highly recommend either the Porterfield R4 or the Mintex 1144. The R4 is more track pad than the Mintex and is a great pad to start with. A bit pricey yes, but a good performer and easy on rotors...in my experience. The Mintex I have not personally used but I have customers who use them and like them. I will offer that they will probably wear a bit faster than the Porterfields and may have a tendency to fade a bit sooner. Both pads will offer you dusting and squealing on the street. I drove my iX for a year with R4's on them and they rivaled most dump trucks! And personally, I have never had a problem stopping on the street with any track pad when cold, again though, YMMV. Some ducting will help pad/rotor life expectancy. Pagids...nice pads but expensive! I've yet to see that they work better than cheaper alternatives in any case but YMMV of course and others I'm sure have a different opinion. I've never heard anything good about the EBC and I will not stock them. I have heard good things about the Carbotech's but have never tried them. My information has led me to believe they will perform like an R4 but wear a bit faster. As far as Hawk track pads like the Blues, from all the various stories I've read and all of my personal experiences along with many of my close friend who run them, they can cause increased rotor wear and the dreaded rust on wheels. I won't go into why I think all this happens but I will yet again say that I've never had this happen to me...even in the rain. So, my thoughts are that you should consider trying a track pad. Just change pads at the event. If you're running 4 events and have run track pads in the past I'd say go for it. I will also be more than happy to discuss it further in great detail if you'd like. Feel free to give me a call at 734.717.8452. Whatever you decide on though, good luck! Jack Money '89 325iX #86 JP M3 www.elephantmotorsports.com **************************************************************************** ******** I currently have the 'red' performance Pagid pads the Bav. Auto used to carry. A local club member uses them on his E36 M3 and recommended them. I only ran one DE on them and while they worked OK, they had a bit more fade than the Porterfield R4 pads I used on my 944 turbo (when I had it). I've thought of putting the R4's on but while they worked just fine for street driving on the 944 turbo they did squeak a bit... I've thought about the Pagid Sport blue pad also, but like the R4 is spendy. So, what about some of the other pad choices I've seen thrown around? Like the EBC Red, Hawk HP Plus, Carbotech P or P+; these all seem to rated for street and track duty and priced reasonably for track capable pads. Do these wear well? I know Hawk warns of greater rotor wear - what about the others? I know Pagid Race pads can leave deposits on the rotor - what about these? Any other choices I'm missing? I hope to run 4 DEs this year (only did one last year). So I'm not looking for a pure race pad, but one I can drive on year round. But I'm not opposed to swapping pads before and after events, just a but lazy about it... I appreciate whatever experience with these you can share. I know this topic has been discussed at length, I probably even save some of those discussions - but that would be on my pc that got hit by lightning :( Please reply directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIA Mark Kittock '96 328i Sport Pkg; 17"OZ,H&R Sport, X-brace,Turner Motorsport bars ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6250 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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