[uucdigest] Tuesday, April 1 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6267
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Garage lighting Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . [uuc] rear rotors for 328i? Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . [uuc] Funny Fan Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . [uuc] 2000 540i FOR SALE 23,000 MILES FOR $28,000 RE: [uuc] Jack is down Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . RE: [uuc] Jack is down ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:37:02 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Garage lighting You must have the good junk ;-). Gary Derian > Don't tell that to the 15 yr old fixtures and tubes that still light up > quietly everytime I flip the switch ..day or night , temps been down to > -5F . > Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder ....or in their wallet ?? > > Except the 4 ft. shop lights are junk. They buzz and burn up in a few > months. Plus they don't work in the cold. > > Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:52:05 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . ABS does not shorten stopping distance, it merely allows some control. In some cases it lengthens stopping. Same for threshold braking. It helps only a little, and helps less at low speeds. It is the right thing to do on a track, but the reason is to maintain control and not burn up your tires. Gary Derian > My questions would be: > > 1) Why no ABS? Not equipped on this car or not working? > > 2) If no ABS, why not some threshold braking? 100ft of skidding would > SEEM there would be enough time to modulate, control the car, and > maybe even swerve. > > Of course, I HAVE ABS because in a panic I can't trust myself to be sure I > do item #2 correctly myself :-) > > If the old man told witnesses and the cops "I didn't see him" then maybe > no one else will worry about the length of the skid marks - of course his > insurance company may speak up when they get involved. > > Dennis > 330i silver/black/manual/sp/pp/xenon/cd > > > At 10:06 AM 04/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >You're definitely correct that we don't have the data, but there was a > >fascinating article in Car & Driver a while back about how crash > >reconstructionists do there thing. I'm sure I'll butcher it going from > >memory (and Gary can correct me), but there are mathematical tools that > >can use the radius of swerve marks, etc., and determine vehicle speeds > >quite accurately. There are also several different types of skid marks > >that reveal a lot of information. > > > >I wouldn't think that level of analysis would apply to an accident like > >this without serious injury or death involved. My only real point is > >that it was a fascinating article and there are a lot more analytical > >tools available for this than I thought. > > > >Chris B. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jamie Howton > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:35 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: RE: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . > > > > > > > > > This may be a dumb question, however regarding all this theorizing > > > that's going on regarding Brad's speed prior to locking up the brakes > > > and producing 100 foot skid marks followed by a 20mph impact; aren't > > > there so many variables involved here that calculating his exact > > > original speed is all but impossible? > > > ><snip> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:05:31 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Gary: Is it not true that car companies or someone else publish crush vs speed tables for their cars? So, if you mashed the front end in 2 ft, you were doing such and such speed. I seem to recall a back-of-the-mag article in one of the trade magazines. Of course, it is more complex that that, but that is a good start. Neil Deshpande *** Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:59:53 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Most of those variables would have nearly no affect on a speed calculaton. Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:19:04 -0600 From: "Bredle, Donald L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] rear rotors for 328i? Well, I bought the Carbotech Panther Plus pads for track days, before they were bashed so much on the list last week! Now I want to make sure I have good, clean rotors to avoid the 'pad poop' syndrome and potential pulsating brakes. Anybody know if I can substitute vented rotors for solid ones on the rear on my '96 328i with stock calipers? There appears to be a different rotor specified for the convertible...is that the the vented version? Also, is the 'dust shield' on the rear brakes essential to keep heat off the nearby suspension parts? It looks awfully large and solid, like it would prevent cooling of those discs. What is the consensus on removal of it? Thanks, Don Bredle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:17:51 -0800 From: "JS Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Gary says.... "ABS does not shorten stopping distance, it merely allows some control. " Technically, I suppose this may be true. Last weekend, I worked the threshold braking drill station at our club's novice training event. Over the course of the day, I watch over 250 'panic stops' by over 60 individual driver/car combos. I can definately attest that the stopping distance for drivers (cars?) without ABS were in every case longer than drivers with ABS. Jeff 90 535i ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:18:14 -0800 From: "Gordo, Ping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Funny Fan The ac blower on my '98 E36 started acting funny a few weeks back(revving up and down intermittently) and then just died. The resistor pack was replaced over the weekend and all was well again I thought until it started again; high rev for 30 seconds like it was put on high and then down for a minute or two. Turning it off doesn't do anything, it just keeps blowing air, cycling up and down. OBTW, the display stays the same while it's doing it's thing, lowest fan setting maybe two leds. I'm ready to give up, any ideas out there? AC works, cold air, but the blower's gone loco. TIA Pingger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:28:59 -0500 From: "James Moran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Surely ABS gives a shorter stopping distance than locked wheels and skidding tires (which was Brad's case)? Except in the cases of gravel and unpacked snow where a "wedge" can build in front of a the skidding tire. Isn't the rolling coefficint of friction higher than the sliding one? Jim Moran '88 M6 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ABS does not shorten stopping distance, it merely allows some control. In > some cases it lengthens stopping. Same for threshold braking. It helps > only a little, and helps less at low speeds. It is the right thing to do on > a track, but the reason is to maintain control and not burn up your tires. > > Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:55:58 -0500 From: "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . I think you just mentioned the key word here Novice training event A Trained/Talented drive can duplicate/beat ABS in most cases. I raced my LTW M3 without ABS as it was hard to threshold brake without activating the ABS. I never noticed leaving much room to the other cars that were using ABS and I did 99% of my passing under braking. It takes some training to modulate brakes vs a Monkey can stand on a pedal and let ABS do the work. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JS Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . > Gary says.... "ABS does not shorten stopping distance, it merely allows some > control. " > > Technically, I suppose this may be true. > > Last weekend, I worked the threshold braking drill station at our club's > novice training event. Over the course of the day, I watch over 250 'panic > stops' by over 60 individual driver/car combos. > > I can definately attest that the stopping distance for drivers (cars?) > without ABS were in every case longer than drivers with ABS. > > Jeff > 90 535i > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:11:00 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Gary, I think you're stating that ABS doesn't shorten the *potential* minimum braking distance of a car. That is, a driver adept at braking at the threshold will be able to match or beat what he could do with ABS (and since under these conditions the wheels are still rotating the driver retains directional control as an equally important benefit). However, since few drivers can do this, in practice ABS results in shorter stops for the average driver. In just makes the input required for the desired output at lot easier to accomplish. --SC Gary Derian wrote: >ABS does not shorten stopping distance, it merely allows some control. In >some cases it lengthens stopping. Same for threshold braking. It helps >only a little, and helps less at low speeds. It is the right thing to do on >a track, but the reason is to maintain control and not burn up your tires. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:08:17 -0500 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Actually, no. Until beads of molten rubber appear as a lubricant under the contact patch. Ed This electrical engineer and lawyer is fast going out of bounds . . . . James Moran wrote: >Isn't the rolling coefficint of friction higher than the sliding one? > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:16:42 -0800 From: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] 2000 540i FOR SALE 23,000 MILES FOR $28,000 I won't go into many details since I spent the time constructing this web page: http://www.inlacal.com/540i In short: California car in beautiful condition. First $28,000 takes it. Chris 89 M3 01 X5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:20:09 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Colburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Jack is down Does anyone have any experience with these jacks? I'm planning on buying one Saturday unless someone talks me out of it before then. Bob C. >Latest catalog from Harbor Freight Tool is headlined on front page with >their Aluminum floor jack at $169 . Lowest they've listed it as far as I >can tell . >Have to pick it up from their retail stores to get that price .... >Gentlepersons..Start your jacking .... > >Bill & Shirley Proud, >Tennessee..winters, Seattle..summers >Long commute in between . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:38:51 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . Yes it is, but at low speeds, the difference is small. Surprisingly perhaps, the calculated speed for small changes in coefficient is small. For example a 100 ft skid is 45.8 mph with a coefficient of 0.7 and 42.4 with a coefficient of 0.6. Gary Derian > Surely ABS gives a shorter stopping distance than locked wheels and skidding tires > (which was Brad's case)? Except in the cases of gravel and unpacked snow where a > "wedge" can build in front of a the skidding tire. > > Isn't the rolling coefficint of friction higher than the sliding one? > > Jim Moran > '88 M6 > > From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > ABS does not shorten stopping distance, it merely allows some control. In > > some cases it lengthens stopping. Same for threshold braking. It helps > > only a little, and helps less at low speeds. It is the right thing to do on > > a track, but the reason is to maintain control and not burn up your tires. > > > > Gary Derian > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:45:53 -0600 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Totalled my 528e Saturday. . . That must assume no momentum was transferred to the object that was hit (i.e. a brick wall). In this case it depends on the weight and orientation of the other car as well. At any given speed, that Town car will leave more of a mark on the 5er than a Geo Metro or a Vespa. --SC Neil Deshpande wrote: >Gary: > >Is it not true that car companies or someone else >publish crush vs speed tables for their cars? So, if >you mashed the front end in 2 ft, you were doing such >and such speed. I seem to recall a back-of-the-mag >article in one of the trade magazines. Of course, it >is more complex that that, but that is a good start. > >Neil Deshpande > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:15:18 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Jack is down They are fine as long as 1) Always apply pressure to the center of the jack pad. If you're off center you have a good chance of cracking the pad. 2)The "feel" when releasing pressure leaves something to be desired. What I mean is that as you turn the handle to lower the car it's a bit binary in its release. 3) NEVER GO UNDER THE CAR UNLESS IT'S ON JACK STANDS. I have one and use it only when I'm at the track, so it doesn't get much use, but it has served me well so far. If you're buying it to be your only jack for daily use in your garage I'd rethink it. Marco - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Colburn Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Jack is down Does anyone have any experience with these jacks? I'm planning on buying one Saturday unless someone talks me out of it before then. Bob C. >Latest catalog from Harbor Freight Tool is headlined on front page with >their Aluminum floor jack at $169 . Lowest they've listed it as far as I >can tell . >Have to pick it up from their retail stores to get that price .... >Gentlepersons..Start your jacking .... > >Bill & Shirley Proud, >Tennessee..winters, Seattle..summers >Long commute in between . ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6267 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
