[uucdigest] Thursday, July 10 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6562
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Chicagoland Dealer recommencations RE: [uuc] Chicagoland Dealer recommencations [uuc] re: Realistic sounding lies/Was Shop Charges RE: [uuc] Too much power? Re: [uuc] Too much power? RE: [uuc] Too much power? [uuc] You can be charged for having bald tires on your BMW [uuc] Which car cover to buy? [uuc] Fan [uuc] Car salespersons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:19:30 -0500 From: Sean Cordone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Chicagoland Dealer recommencations Best local dealer is Knauz in Lake Bluff. It's kind of remote unless he lives on the North Shore. I have actually had good experiences with the service department there too. Carey Probst wrote: >A friend of mine from Chicago is looking to join the ranks of BMW owners and I'd like >to see him get a good start. > >Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Chicago area, good or bad, so I can advise him? > >Thanks in advance. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:17:19 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Chicagoland Dealer recommencations > -----Original Message----- > Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Chicago area, good or > bad, so I can advise him? I bought my 330i from Patrick BMW in Schaumburg. They weren't bad to deal with from a sales perspective, I got a pretty fair deal on the exact car that I wanted and they gave me more than I thought I'd get for my trade-in. Their service department has been OK, but I have recently started to take my cars to Motorwerks in Barrington for service and am very pleased with them. I would recommend either dealership FWIW. BTW, here is a list of all of the Chicago area BMW dealerships: http://www.chicagoluxurycars.com/bmw.php Hope this helps. Jamie Howton 2002 330i 5 Spd Steel Blue Metallic SP 1995 M3 5 Spd Arctic Silver 1979 Porsche 928 5 Speed Opalmetallic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:55:18 -0700 From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] re: Realistic sounding lies/Was Shop Charges re: Realistic sounding lies/ Was Shop Charges: to Mr. Fadeev, et al: Its nice that honest business practices are prevalent and such corruption is sufficiently infrequent in BMWCCA that those not exposed to it find it incredulous what some try to get away with elsewhere in the organization. The private responses I receive on this issue are fortunately more rational than the unfounded declarations others post publicly. If you are a disbeliever regarding what a dealer extracted via financial leverage from a chapter in retaliation against an honest customer who was legitimately wronged and where BMWNA investigated and concurred, please remember the byline used by another digester: "The truth is the truth, no matter what you *believe*". To put it another way, what if I tried to say the earth was round, but the years was only 1490? Fwiw, 'jk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:58:47 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Too much power? Anyone who can afford to spend for that much power......that who needs it. Let's be perfectly honest. Who REALLY needs more than the 78hp Toyota Soluna I had in Thailand? It goes 160kph, which is well past US speed limits? Takes a while to get there, but it gets there--and at high 30's mpg to boot. I've said it before, I have a buddy with a new Carolla who asks me why I need $30k++ 200+ hp sports cars for the kind of mired stop & go traffic that is now approaching all-day status here in Atlanta. I don't. No one does. But, dammit, I can afford it, I want it, I'm having it. BTW, what's your cutoff for too much power? 400hp M5? 470hp E55? Fact of the matter, the SL65 is a seriously cool car, but one that sooooo few people will ever be able to afford, it's not really even a consideration. Also, the guys who drive those are probably VERY UNLIKELY to attempt to try & use 1/10th of that car's capabilities. You should probably be more worried about the hot-heads in 275hp Z28's..... Lee 88 M3->regularly redlined in lower 4 gears.....yes including on the street 01 Saab 9-3SE->ditto, except everyday instead of every week 88 Saab 9000turbo->just go it running today....then redlined in lower 3 gears--traffic prevented the fourth gear festivities P.S. Don't bother flaming me about the risks of driving fast on the street I know them well, accept them & only drive like that when there's no one else around to hurt. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gaudio, Stefano [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:59 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: [uuc] Too much power? > > > I just read in Car and Driver Mag aug 2003 ed. about the merc > SL65 AMG. Ok > who needs 604HP and 738Lb/ft of torque? Are we going mad? Did anyone > notice that most US highways have a 55mph speed limit? My > stock '98 M3 is a > lot of fun, with enough power that I never really have to > floor it because > of traffic conditions. Sure it's nice doing it every once in > a while but > any red line after 2nd gear and I'm already in trouble with > the trooper at > the next trap. The only time I can really enjoy it is at the > track and I > can have fun at the local autoX too. 240HP need respect @ > the track 604Hp > need a schumacher to really enjoy it. That much power won't be even > appreciated until you are well above the 55mph. I think that > they are just > asking for trouble. I'm waiting for that guy talking on the > cell w 738Lb/ft > of torque. Ouch!!! > > Stefano > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:16:27 +0100 From: "Andrew Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Too much power? Stefano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: "I just read in Car and Driver Mag aug 2003 ed. about the merc SL65 AMG. Ok who needs 604HP and 738Lb/ft of torque? Are we going mad? Did anyone notice that most US highways have a 55mph speed limit?" Um, Stefano, given that the average family car in the US has upwards of 200 bhp, a large engine, and accelerative performance that would easily put it in the top 10% of road vehicles in Mercedes's home country, you might want to re-think that logic :). Mercedes/AMG is no longer in a power race with Audi and BMW, but with Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini. While Mercedes will continue with its 155 mph speed limit, its performance is designed for the empty, unrestricted autobahn where it can outpace pretty much anything behind it from 100 km/h upwards, just after that truck pulls back into the right lane. Merc's problem might be that future AMGs are sufficiently powerful to overshadow the Mercedes-McLaren SLR (which unlike every other McLaren, roadgoing or F1, actually comes with a Mercedes engine this time). Andy T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:27:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Too much power? Doesn't the Bugatti Veyron have 1000 HP? I believe that is a good cut off for me, HP wise. Affordability-wise, the e36 m3 pretty much tapped me out. Jason - --- "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > BTW, what's your cutoff for too much power? 400hp > M5? 470hp E55? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] You can be charged for having bald tires on your BMW Lee: Is this the crash that had the E39 M5 in it? Charging the parents is silly, IMHO. In my family, I thought I would not have a car for 5+ yrs after working on an Indian salary and with a bus to get around everywhere, and could not be bothered to learn how to drive when I lived there despite my parents' urging. Sort of like learning to dye your hair at age 12? Too many other projects that I was much more interested in. I had not the slightest intention of wasting even 5 mins in learning something that someone else could do for me when I could be reading something instead! My brother on the other hand wanted his mobility and independence at once and got into fights with my parents over this all the time while borrowing the cars. Same parents and my brother got everything earlier in life than I did as he got it at the same time and was younger. Same parents, different kids. Some kids are silly despite their parents, IMHO. Neil Deshpande P.S. Just heard of the loss 25-yr old school acquaintance to an accident in India. Dark truck on the highway w/o markers at night. Head-on collision. Fortunately, her husband made it despite the lack of emergency services. No speeding, no racing, just poor parking on part of someone else. *** "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Typical crap from a sh!thead district attorney trying to make a name for himself. This has been all over the news here in Atlanta. This sleaze-bag is just trying to pile on charges. Sorry for the rant, but I get so sick of seeing all this crap everywhere......it was a tradgey,yes. One resulting from stupidity, yes....but these schmucks are blowing it waaaaay out of proportion. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:55:07 -0500 From: "lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Which car cover to buy? I need a car cover for both outdoor and indoor use. Any experiences with the following: (1) Weathershield, (2) Noah, (3) Evolution 4, or (4) Bavarian Autosport Ultimate? Thanks, Lars ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:55:11 -0400 From: "David A. Leonard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Fan >>>Subject: [uuc] <E36> M3 Aux Fan Questions Hi all, I noticed the other day that the aux. (electric) fan in my 97 M3 does not come on with the AC. Q> The fan in most of these cars(I have an 88 735i) comes on low with A/c and high with high engine temps. First check the aux fan fuse. On most cars there is a dual temp sender/switch screwed into the radiator. If you jump the wires there, you can usually get the fan to come on high and low, if there is voltage there at one of the wires, which there normally is.(check with a meter).try using a paper clip to jump the switch, and if the fan runs on high, you know the fan is okay. If it won't run on low (there are usually three wires 12v, and high and low, jump 12v to each wire, high should come on with one, low with the other..if you jump the sender, and the fan doesn't run in either mode, the fan is probably toast, if it runs high, and not low, the Ballast resistor is probly burned. To get deeper into it, remove the grille or possibly the front valence panel on your car, unhook the connector to the fan, and check for voltage with the AC switch on.. if there is voltage and the fan won't run, everything up to the fan is good and your fan is shot, if not it is a wiring or switch/relay problem. On mine there is a ballast resistor to cut the juice back to 6v for the low fan position..these sometimes burn out.. If you have one, check voltage on either side of it, if it is 12v on one side, and nothing on the other, it is burned..they are $20 in my case. You can get 16" generic cooling fans at your local auto parts store for $90 that work as well as the $350 OEM fans if you are cheap like me. Sorry for the disjointedness of this message, but hey, you get what you pay for...Its sailboat race nite, and I'm late for the bar/boatride for island drinking! Dave Leonard Casco Bay Maine David A. Leonard Rockland Financial, LLC 48 Main St. Bridgton, ME 04009 207-650-5098 Mobile(Use this one for me, has voice mail) Office 207-647-3299 Fax 207-647-5396 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:26:08 -0700 From: Steve Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Car salespersons Someone posted a link to the Edmunds site and an article written by an Edmunds employee that worked 'undercover' as a car salesman. I read that article, and I have to say that his experience was exactly the same as my experience as a car salesman. I strongly urge anyone that is thinking of buying a car from a dealership to read the entire article before they set foot onto a car lot. He will give you some very good insight into the way a dealership handles a 'deal', and your newfound information will help you handle the situation. You will also learn that a salesperson is not the 'scum bag' that some of our members have made them out to be. The salesperson is the one caught in between the customer and the dealership management, and just trying to make enough money to pay the mortgage. It is an inherently bad position in which to be positioned, and is basically a no win proposition. In the six months I sold cars, I managed one 'pounder' deal. By far, the majority of my deals were minis. One can not make a living on three minis ($200 before taxes) a week. I suppose that's why I am no longer selling cars. Hell, I wasn't selling cars even when I was selling cars. One of the most frequently mentioned points harped upon in the Friday morning sales meeting was that if the customer didn't buy a car from you, he would go across the street and buy a car from that dealership that had better salesmen (i.e. higher pressure). Also significant in the story was what he didn't say. Some of these points are pretty common knowledge, some you may have never heard before. Shop for a car on the last day of the month (doh). The sales staff and the management are hungry to make their numbers for the month if they are behind. Walk onto the lot 30 minutes, or less, from closing time. Your 'deal' will hold from four to six people at the store past closing time, and they all want to go home to their families. Your deal will go faster. Never buy a car in the dark. Doh!!! Never ever ever tell the salesman that you are paying cash if that is your intention. If the 'desk' believes they will make money on the financing (often as much as 5 points), they will be willing to discount the price of the car a bit more. That screws the salesman a bit because he doesn't make any commission on the back end of the deal. Go through the motions of financing the deal, and wait until you get to the F&I person, then pull out your home equity checkbook and tell him you will write a check. He won't be happy, but by then the four square will already be initialed, and they can't change it. If you do plan to finance the car, your FICO score determines the interest rate you will be offered. That rate is somewhat negotiable, go for it. Dealerships very often have better financing for high FICO buyers than most banks. We even had relationships with most of the local credit unions so the F&I person could arrange the loan with the buyer's own credit union on the spot. Of course the dealership would get a point or two on the deal. The buyer would be happy because he got the rate his CU offered. Look up the trade in value of your car on kbb.com before you leave your house. Expect an offer of about 20% less than that. Then negotiate your way up. Before they can put your old car on the lot for sale, it must be brought up to safety standards specified by the local laws. That may include tires and brakes among other things. Take that fact into consideration during your negotiations. It's pretty common for a dealership to put between $500 to $1000 into a trade-in before selling it. Part of the four square negotiation process is gelling the new and used car negotiation into one master deal. If they take a hit on the new car, they will make that up on the used car, or the reverse obviously. Work at negotiating the two cars as separate deals. Be tough at negotiating, but remember that they need to make a reasonable profit in order to stay in business. Also remember that these folks negotiate every day, and you negotiate for a car every few years or so. They get a lot of practice, and they are good at it. Good negotiation skills require each side to give, but only give a little at a time. Don't ever ever EVER give your final price right off the bat. Start low (as he will) and realize that you will need to come up as he comes down. Work the process so that you get at least three pencils from the desk. That is really important, really important. Did I mention that you should get at least three pencils from the desk? If the process stalls at some point, then sand up in place as if to leave. You'll be amazed at how fast the salesperson runs to the desk muttering something like "I just had an idea, I'll be right back" on the way out of the box. Pe prepared to spend three to four hours from the time you park your old car on the lot till the time you drive off in your new car. I was always amazed at the number of folks that expected to buy a car in 30 minutes. Not gonna happen folks. Read the story, learn the process, work the process to your advantage, and be happy that you made the best deal you could. You may not agree with the process, and you may not like the process, but it is what it is, and you alone aren't going to change it just for your deal. Not gonna happen! The more you know about the way it works, the better armed you will be to deal with it. Treat the salesperson with the same respect you expect to receive from him. Most will respond in kind. Don't blow the guy off with "I'm just looking" as the first words out of your mouth. Ask a question and allow him to address it. Let him show you around. Be friendly!! You aren't making any commitments yet, so why not let him help you. If you are unlucky enough to get a dolt, just come right out and ask for another salesperson. Don't be shy. Personalities play a very big part in the process. Get someone you can deal with, don't suffer with a looser. I hope this will help one or two people that have made it this far. Steve Albrecht ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6562 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
