[uucdigest] Friday, July 11 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6563
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Car salespersons Re: [uuc] Too much power? Re: [uuc] Too much power? [uuc] looking for a new car...E46 M3 Re: [uuc] Chicagoland Dealer recommencations [uuc] Re: [uucdigest] V3 #6562 [uuc] Hello Canadian Members [uuc] Aux Fan (I want high speed only) was Fan RE: [uuc] Does anyone have a BMWCCA phone number? New x5 Re: [uuc] Car salespersons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:33:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Brush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Car salespersons Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:26:08 -0700 From: Steve Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sez: . Work the process so that you get at least three pencils from the desk. That is really important, really important. Steve, How many pencils? Also, what do you think of the strategy of deciding what car you want and doing your negotiating by fax (or internet)? I found this worked pretty well the last time I bought a new car (1997). This was well before the internet ramped up the way it is now, with an internet specialist at most dealerships. Anyway, at that point in time I got the invoice price for the vehicle and all the options I wanted, and decided what I thought was a decent profit. I made my offer by fax, the salesman knew what I knew, and he came back with what I thought was reasonable, so the deal was painless, with no back and forth to the sales manager bs, no add-ons, etc. I had to spend minimal time in the dealership so I was happy. I had the 3% holdback figured in but now I realize there may have been more trunk money from the mfr. to the dealer that I didn't know of, maybe that's why the deal went so well. Oh well. Jon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:00:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Too much power? Andy: This is amusing. My Dad, who thought nothing of walking me around in the crankcases of screw compressors as a kid commenting on the sheer power of those things, wonders why I need 311HP in my M5. Frankly, I don't even use 100HP of it, but I love the technology. OTOH, I often have some sub-250HP owners tell me they don't think I really have 300HP under the hood at which point I'm reminded of Shaw's response to a lady criticising Pygmalion, "Madam, I agree with you, but what can I do. I'm in the minority." I really like Mercedes, always have. It is _the_ car to have in India. I still like the old W124 platform for its width and lowness. Very attractive in shape if no more in detail. BMW was always seen as an upstart. I also like the company history and such more than BMW. Indeed, it could be argued that even Audi has a more impressive history than BMW. The museum is WAY WAY better than BMW (which is pretty sucky). If they made manual transmission cars, I'd have a Mercedes for sure. Neil Deshpande *** "Andrew Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Um, Stefano, given that the average family car in the US has upwards of 200 bhp, a large engine, and accelerative performance that would easily put it in the top 10% of road vehicles in Mercedes's home country, you might want to re-think that logic :). Mercedes/AMG is no longer in a power race with Audi and BMW, but with Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini. While Mercedes will continue with its 155 mph speed limit, its performance is designed for the empty, unrestricted autobahn where it can outpace pretty much anything behind it from 100 km/h upwards, just after that truck pulls back into the right lane. Merc's problem might be that future AMGs are sufficiently powerful to overshadow the Mercedes-McLaren SLR (which unlike every other McLaren, roadgoing or F1, actually comes with a Mercedes engine this time). Andy T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:35:16 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Too much power? - ---- Original Message ---- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they made manual transmission cars, I'd >have a Mercedes for sure. > >Neil Deshpande Actually, they do. At least the SLK and CLK are available with proper 6-speed manuals. Decent action (better than OE BMW), but not available in the AMG models. Figure that as marketing where the BMW M-cars are currently available only with manuals (and that SMG experiment). - - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:48:39 -1000 From: Jay G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] looking for a new car...E46 M3 hey gruppe...i'm starting to look for a new car, and i dont really know what to do...i currently have a 97 M3, and it has served me very well in the past...lots of autocross wins, lots of track days and lots of fun...but i'm looking for something to replace it..this new car will be a autocross/track/street vehicle...i was considering the subaru sti, infiniti G35 coupe, mercedes c32, and the e46 M3...i'm leaning towards the M3 at this point... are there any issues with the new M3??? i *believe* they fixed the exploding engine issues...but are there anything else one should be wary about??? any oil pump nuts getting loose, or stuff like that??? also, how is the SMG system? it seems pretty cool from a technological standpoint, but how does it really perform in the track/autocross setting? any track junkies here actually tried one on the track? any and all replies welcome...thanx!!! ps- too bad the E46 M3 CSL wont be coming here :( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Chicagoland Dealer recommencations I have had issues with Knautz that they refused to make good on. If you do go there see Dave Behnk.I prefer Fields myself. John Hughes is easy to deal with, friendly, albiet he talks WAY to much sometimes. Tell him I sent you (Jason Daniels) I have bought several cars from him and sent him a lot of Biz. Always honest about stuff. GREAT coffee too! See Mike the service writer for service, Brian the service manager and ask for Dave Mason to be your tech. They do randomly rotate techs but he's real good. In fact almost all their guys are good. Dave is the best for the old cars too. He owns a barn full of them including my old 74' 2002tii that I sold him last summer. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:14:07 -0500 From: "Larry T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: [uucdigest] V3 #6562 Lars, I have a weathershield, and it is THE BOMB. Water just SHEETS off of it. It also keeps the car pretty cool, under the sun, too. It is definitely the best car cover, I've ever owned. I paid ~$220 from autoanything.com, and it was shipped quickly, with a free cable lock and bag. Larry >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:55:07 -0500 >From: "lars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] Which car cover to buy? > >I need a car cover for both outdoor and indoor use. Any experiences with >the following: (1) Weathershield, (2) Noah, (3) Evolution 4, or (4) >Bavarian Autosport Ultimate? > >Thanks, >Lars _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:01:47 -0400 From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Hello Canadian Members I am planning a trip in late August to Quebec City, QC. I was just wondering what the price of gasoline is running, both regular and premium? Also, if anybody has some good tips on places to see or eat. I am going to be taking my handicapped sister, so nothing to strenuous is in order, she has a bad heart. Thanks in advance and I look forward to being back in Canada after all too many years. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:42:38 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Aux Fan (I want high speed only) was Fan Dave wrote: >Sorry for the disjointedness of this message, but hey, you get what you pay >for... Not at all I've read three great posts this morning already, Steve A. on working the deal, Andy on the SL65, and yours on aux fans. :-) Now if you guys could help a somewhat electrically challenged person here. My goal is to wire the aux fan to operate on high speed with a switch. The switches already exist it can be the A/C button or the Fog Lamp switch I don't care as the car will not have neither A/C nor foglamps. Can anyone walk me through how to go about this? Thanks! :-) Carlos 91 M3 a/c and aux fan working 88 iS removing a/c and rewiring aux fan hopefully this weekend ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:03:27 -0700 From: Brad Houser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Does anyone have a BMWCCA phone number? New x5 Larry: If you are looking to join the BMW CCA now in order to get the Membership Reward (http://www.bmwcca.org/PDFs/Form-MembershipReward.pdf) you will not be eligible. If you have been a member for more than a year, you will be able to get $1000 back from BMW NA. Brad Houser > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Binder, Larry - Spine > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:13 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: [uuc] Does anyone have a BMWCCA phone number? New x5 > > > We've decided on an X5 3.0, Prem,CW,Climate,PDC,Xenon,Heated > Steering Wheel, Steel Gray w/black. $46,070 The lease will be > $504 per month, %60 Residual, %2.4 finance rate 36 months > $3,500 down+fees ($5000 total Out of pocket -$1000 CCA > Rebate) $28,500 buyout at lease end. We pick it up today at > 3:00. It is from a local dealer, West German BMW in Fort > Washington, PA. How does this deal sound? I am getting 2k off MSRP. > > Larry > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:05:41 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Car salespersons I've had good luck (I think) having my wife come along and resist buying while I tried selling here. We actually did it accidentally once and on purpose another time. She got up and walked out to the (old) car once, leaving me in the cube. I haven't bought anything new in many years so I am definitely out of practice. Gary Derian > Someone posted a link to the Edmunds site and an article written by an > Edmunds employee that worked 'undercover' as a car salesman. I read > that article, and I have to say that his experience was exactly the same > as my experience as a car salesman. I strongly urge anyone that is > thinking of buying a car from a dealership to read the entire article > before they set foot onto a car lot. He will give you some very good > insight into the way a dealership handles a 'deal', and your newfound > information will help you handle the situation. You will also learn that > a salesperson is not the 'scum bag' that some of our members have made > them out to be. The salesperson is the one caught in between the > customer and the dealership management, and just trying to make enough > money to pay the mortgage. It is an inherently bad position in which to > be positioned, and is basically a no win proposition. In the six months > I sold cars, I managed one 'pounder' deal. By far, the majority of my > deals were minis. One can not make a living on three minis ($200 before > taxes) a week. I suppose that's why I am no longer selling cars. Hell, > I wasn't selling cars even when I was selling cars. One of the most > frequently mentioned points harped upon in the Friday morning sales > meeting was that if the customer didn't buy a car from you, he would go > across the street and buy a car from that dealership that had better > salesmen (i.e. higher pressure). > > Also significant in the story was what he didn't say. Some of these > points are pretty common knowledge, some you may have never heard before. > > Shop for a car on the last day of the month (doh). The sales staff and > the management are hungry to make their numbers for the month if they > are behind. > > Walk onto the lot 30 minutes, or less, from closing time. Your 'deal' > will hold from four to six people at the store past closing time, and > they all want to go home to their families. Your deal will go faster. > > Never buy a car in the dark. Doh!!! > > Never ever ever tell the salesman that you are paying cash if that is > your intention. If the 'desk' believes they will make money on the > financing (often as much as 5 points), they will be willing to discount > the price of the car a bit more. That screws the salesman a bit because > he doesn't make any commission on the back end of the deal. Go through > the motions of financing the deal, and wait until you get to the F&I > person, then pull out your home equity checkbook and tell him you will > write a check. He won't be happy, but by then the four square will > already be initialed, and they can't change it. > > If you do plan to finance the car, your FICO score determines the > interest rate you will be offered. That rate is somewhat negotiable, go > for it. Dealerships very often have better financing for high FICO > buyers than most banks. We even had relationships with most of the > local credit unions so the F&I person could arrange the loan with the > buyer's own credit union on the spot. Of course the dealership would > get a point or two on the deal. The buyer would be happy because he got > the rate his CU offered. > > Look up the trade in value of your car on kbb.com before you leave your > house. Expect an offer of about 20% less than that. Then negotiate your > way up. Before they can put your old car on the lot for sale, it must > be brought up to safety standards specified by the local laws. That may > include tires and brakes among other things. Take that fact into > consideration during your negotiations. It's pretty common for a > dealership to put between $500 to $1000 into a trade-in before selling > it. > > Part of the four square negotiation process is gelling the new and used > car negotiation into one master deal. If they take a hit on the new car, > they will make that up on the used car, or the reverse obviously. Work > at negotiating the two cars as separate deals. > > Be tough at negotiating, but remember that they need to make a > reasonable profit in order to stay in business. Also remember that > these folks negotiate every day, and you negotiate for a car every few > years or so. They get a lot of practice, and they are good at it. Good > negotiation skills require each side to give, but only give a little at > a time. Don't ever ever EVER give your final price right off the bat. > Start low (as he will) and realize that you will need to come up as he > comes down. Work the process so that you get at least three pencils > from the desk. That is really important, really important. Did I > mention that you should get at least three pencils from the desk? If > the process stalls at some point, then sand up in place as if to leave. > You'll be amazed at how fast the salesperson runs to the desk muttering > something like "I just had an idea, I'll be right back" on the way out > of the box. > > Pe prepared to spend three to four hours from the time you park your old > car on the lot till the time you drive off in your new car. I was > always amazed at the number of folks that expected to buy a car in 30 > minutes. Not gonna happen folks. > > Read the story, learn the process, work the process to your advantage, > and be happy that you made the best deal you could. You may not agree > with the process, and you may not like the process, but it is what it > is, and you alone aren't going to change it just for your deal. Not > gonna happen! The more you know about the way it works, the better > armed you will be to deal with it. > > Treat the salesperson with the same respect you expect to receive from > him. Most will respond in kind. Don't blow the guy off with "I'm just > looking" as the first words out of your mouth. Ask a question and allow > him to address it. Let him show you around. Be friendly!! You aren't > making any commitments yet, so why not let him help you. If you are > unlucky enough to get a dolt, just come right out and ask for another > salesperson. Don't be shy. Personalities play a very big part in the > process. Get someone you can deal with, don't suffer with a looser. > > I hope this will help one or two people that have made it this far. > > Steve Albrecht > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6563 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
