[uucdigest] Friday, August 8 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6642
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] E30 Bumpers Re: [uuc] Re: Somewhat enthusiastic 318I owner [uuc] E30 oil on outside of spark plugs RE: [uuc] E30 Bumpers [uuc] What's better? Re: [uuc] E30 Bumpers Re: [uuc] E30 Bumpers [uuc] Recent dealer experience ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:20:06 -0400 From: "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E30 Bumpers > plastic: front (7 pounds); rear (10 pounds) > aluminum: 20-25 pounds each. > basic guess is the aluminum is 2-3x heavier. > significant enough to feel the difference when driving the car around the > first time. You felt the removal of ~25 pounds from a ~2,800 car? Wow. So, you can also tell how much gas is in the tank (within at least a 1/4 of a tank) without looking at the fuel gauge? Regards, Rich - not nearly sensitive enough to small changes I make on my cars.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:29:33 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Somewhat enthusiastic 318I owner I haven't driven a BMW with Monroe shocks but I can't imaging it being any good compared to Bilsteins. My previous experience with "normal shocks" has allways been bad. The car will wallow and sway too much but not ride any better. Expensive shocks have far better valving that let you have your cake and eat it also. The Bilsteins will not shake your wife's teeth. The car will ride better with the high quality shocks, and handle much better also. To save some money, get standard OEM Boge shocks. Try shocks.com or some other mail order place. Maybe the local dealer or some of the BMW parts places can get them for a good price, also. Gary Derian > Purchased this car 5 years ago on a lark. Just something that runs while I > keep all the kids cars going. It needed a lot of basic maintenance, like > replacement of noisy wheel bearings, bent wheels etc. which had the owner > thinking the car was worn out in general at 120,000 miles and thus a below > book price. Piece by piece I have gotten this car running pretty good and it > now has round wheels, new control arms, tie rod assemblies and good tires > (Michelin). It is smooth as silk on smooth road but the shocks are about > zero (178,000 miles). Engine is great, air works but drivers seat is a mess. > I am not a race driver or even a fan. But I like the handling of the car and > enjoy a good "go cart ride" and decent behavior on the dips in the road > especially in turns. > > I can install Monroe sensa tracs for under $200 or Beilstein heavy duties > (no sports)for just under $600. This is not apples to apples. With the > sensatracs I would opt to keep the existing shock mounts (they look good)but > with the Beilsteins I'm thinking that the shock mounts had better be changed > because the Beilsteins will stress them more. I do not know enough to make a > case for any of this. > > $400 is significant money for me but it can be found if there is some kind > of benefit I can substantiate. It would be great to ride on a set of each > but I do not hang around with the right people (although Huntsville, Al is > BMW territory) to have that kind of access. I am sure the Monroes will make > a wonderful difference right off the bat and if I never heard of Beilsteins > I would probably be happy but being an engineer and do it your selfoholic I > appreciate good stuff. > > This is all subjective but perhaps someone who has sensatracs or who has > made the migration to bielsteins can comment. My wife drives this car a lot > and I do not want to ruin it for her by creating a jolt wagon. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:48:53 -0700 From: "John Coffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E30 oil on outside of spark plugs My '87 325is passed smog after changing the intake manifold gaskets. Major air leak there. I was changing the spark plug also and I noticed the three plugs in the middle had oil on the outside of them. Tip was a nice light brown. Where could the oil be coming from? Valve cover gasket? Any where else? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:39:37 -0400 From: "Zidlicky, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] E30 Bumpers >> plastic: front (7 pounds); rear (10 pounds) >> aluminum: 20-25 pounds each. >> basic guess is the aluminum is 2-3x heavier. >> significant enough to feel the difference when driving the car around the >> first time. >You felt the removal of ~25 pounds from a ~2,800 car? Wow. So, you can also tell how much >gas is in the tank (within at least a 1/4 of a tank) without looking at the fuel gauge? > >Regards, >Rich - not nearly sensitive enough to small changes I make on my cars.... In a attempt (albeit a possibly a meet one) to defend myself ... I did actually drive the car for a few weeks without any bumpers at all ... so the weight savings was 50 lbs or more at the time and the car did feel different, more nimble in the turns ... if I remember my physics correctly, it's not just the weight but where the weight is located on the car. For example, I have read a number of instances of people "upgrading" to large wheels and losing acceleration due to the fact that they have increased the unsprung wieght of the car ... now the effect of the bumper removal probably does not have as significant effect on acceleration as the reduction/increase of unsprung weight, but I do believe one can notice a positive effect, especially in the turns, if one removes 25 - 30 lbs of weight from the head and tail of the car ... would seem to me that the negative effect of inertia one has to overcome in a turn would decline and therefore turning would be a little bit brisker/easier/smoother ... maybe that's why you see bumpers taken off race cars altogether ... Another example would be placing a 60 lb bag of sand in the trunk during the winter to improve traction in the snow ... I think one can feel the difference of this amount of added weight in the trunk more than if you placed the bag in the passenger seat (less moment of inertia to overcome in a 90 degree turn because the added weight is far from the center of gravity of the car) But maybe you're right and my physics is completely wrong or I was just thrilled to be rid of the aluminum diving boards that I just felt better about the car. Regards, Peter This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:11:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] What's better? Greetings all. I am going to replace the suspension on my car and came accross these H&R cup kits that tirerack sells. These seem to be ALOT less expensive than buying shocks and springs seperate and are said to be "tuned" for each different vehicle. The guy at tirerack told me that the shocks are either Bilstien or Koni. Does anyone have any experience with these? Has anyone compared these to the Bilstien/HR set up? Kinda seems to good to be true and you know what they say about that!! Thanks!! Manuel Paredes changing my H2O pump this weekend!! L.A. BMWCCA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:23:50 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E30 Bumpers My first thought was aluminum ... That answer is good enough for me. Although I would still welcome definitive weights if someone has them. Even if the weight savings were half that it would be worth it to me. It appears very easy to swap them? Stan > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 02:38:18 -0400 > From: "Zidlicky, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [uuc] E30 Bumpers > > Believe the diving board bumpers are aluminum, not steel, but they're rather > thick and quite heavy. > > I just did the conversion on my '90 325ic. Unfortunately, I did not weigh > either set during the swap and have already tossed the aluminum diving > boards. > > Best guestimate based on handling these things a bit with my bare hands when > trying to perfect the install would be: > > plastic: front (7 pounds); rear (10 pounds) > aluminum: 20-25 pounds each. > > basic guess is the aluminum is 2-3x heavier. > > significant enough to feel the difference when driving the car around the > first time. > > not a definitive answer but hope this helps. > > Peter > '88 m3 > '90 325ic > - -----Original Message----- > From: Stan Jackson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:25 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [uuc] E30 Bumpers > > > Anyone out there have an idea how heavy the steel(?) bumpers are on the 1988 > 325i cars? Front weight ? Rear weight? > > How do the later plastic-over-fiberglass(?) bumpers compare in weight? > > Since the bumper mounts and shock absorbers appear to be the same, don't > include those. > > Thanks, > > Stan > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:24:00 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E30 Bumpers Polar moment of inertia. Same for tires. 20 lb in wheels and tires acts like 30 lb in the trunk. Yaw acceleration is affected more when the weight is in the bumpers. Gary Derian > >> plastic: front (7 pounds); rear (10 pounds) > >> aluminum: 20-25 pounds each. > >> basic guess is the aluminum is 2-3x heavier. > >> significant enough to feel the difference when driving the car around the > >> first time. > > >You felt the removal of ~25 pounds from a ~2,800 car? Wow. So, you can > also tell how much > >gas is in the tank (within at least a 1/4 of a tank) without looking at the > fuel gauge? > > > >Regards, > > >Rich - not nearly sensitive enough to small changes I make on my cars.... > > In a attempt (albeit a possibly a meet one) to defend myself ... I did > actually drive the car for a few weeks without any bumpers at all ... so the > weight savings was 50 lbs or more at the time and the car did feel > different, more nimble in the turns ... if I remember my physics correctly, > it's not just the weight but where the weight is located on the car. > > For example, I have read a number of instances of people "upgrading" to > large wheels and losing acceleration due to the fact that they have > increased the unsprung wieght of the car ... now the effect of the bumper > removal probably does not have as significant effect on acceleration as the > reduction/increase of unsprung weight, but I do believe one can notice a > positive effect, especially in the turns, if one removes 25 - 30 lbs of > weight from the head and tail of the car ... would seem to me that the > negative effect of inertia one has to overcome in a turn would decline and > therefore turning would be a little bit brisker/easier/smoother ... maybe > that's why you see bumpers taken off race cars altogether ... > > Another example would be placing a 60 lb bag of sand in the trunk during the > winter to improve traction in the snow ... I think one can feel the > difference of this amount of added weight in the trunk more than if you > placed the bag in the passenger seat (less moment of inertia to overcome in > a 90 degree turn because the added weight is far from the center of gravity > of the car) > > But maybe you're right and my physics is completely wrong or I was just > thrilled to be rid of the aluminum diving boards that I just felt better > about the car. > > Regards, > > Peter > > This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:05:36 -0400 From: "Richard Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Recent dealer experience Thought I might share a recent dealer experience with everyone and hopefully get a response from some of you regarding the cost of work performed. I went to my local dealer to have four tires mounted and balanced for my 1995 M3. As I am new to this area and leery of taking my car into any random tire shop I thought the dealer would provide me with quality work and attention to detail. I wanted all weights on the inside of the wheel. I was prepared to pay somewhat of a premium for them to do the work, but what I paid seems ridiculously high. So, I purchased four new Yokohamas from Tire Rack and removed my wheels and existing tires from the car. With the car sitting on jack stands in my garage for a coolant flush and minor brake work I dropped of tires and wheels to be mounted and balanced. Dealer calls, says they're ready. Cost was $231.85! 2.5 hours labor - $187.50, 4 valve stems - $10.60, stick on weights - $20.62, plus tax. Dealer says they charge a premium for M! style wheels!? This sound ridiculous to anyone? Dealer says normal size (non M) wheels are $69.95 for all four! Thoughts. Richard Bennett ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6642 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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