[uucdigest] Friday, August 8 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6644
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience [uuc] Wheel mount cost [uuc] E30 Bumpers RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience Re: [uuc] Recent dealer experience RE: [uuc] E30 Bumpers RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:58:43 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience > I can't imagine that the M wheels are any harder to balance than any > of the large-sized aftermarket wheels, sounds like BS to me. It's not that they're harder to balance, but they have a unique way for the tire to be mounted on the wheel. From what I understand there's a lip on the inside of the wheel that effectively requires the tire to be "screwed" on, kinda like the top of a screw-top beer bottle :-). On both sides. Takes a bit more time. Having said that, that was still an outrageous price. I recently walked OUT of a tire shop that wanted $30/wheel to mount the new Pilot Sports (with a bunch of nickel-and-dime charges, it was over $160. Sorry, no). Went to Rennwerks (Hi Marco! :-)), where I shoulda gone in the first place. $25/wheel + $3/tire disposal fee. $112, done. Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1992 325is #44 JP/A5 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:04:28 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Wheel mount cost Richard, Unless they used "gold" weights you got hosed. Two and half hours to dismount and remount plus balance should only take an hour and half tops and that's with a 30 minute coffee break. My local dealer charges right around $95 an hour labor when you factor in all of those secret "shop" supplies they use no matter what you have worked on. I have an independent shop do mine and I've stood an watched a difficult balance job on a particular wheel (one where he had to do it 2 or 3 times) and I know it didn't take him an hour to do it. These are the dealer horror stories that lead people to believe that upkeep on a BMW is too expensive to justify owning one. I think Jesse James used a gun ;-). It better be a "family" life time balancing ;-). Evan Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:05:36 -0400 From: "Richard Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Recent dealer experience Thought I might share a recent dealer experience with everyone and hopefully get a response from some of you regarding the cost of work performed. I went to my local dealer to have four tires mounted and balanced for my 1995 M3. As I am new to this area and leery of taking my car into any random tire shop I thought the dealer would provide me with quality work and attention to detail. I wanted all weights on the inside of the wheel. I was prepared to pay somewhat of a premium for them to do the work, but what I paid seems ridiculously high. So, I purchased four new Yokohamas from Tire Rack and removed my wheels and existing tires from the car. With the car sitting on jack stands in my garage for a coolant flush and minor brake work I dropped of tires and wheels to be mounted and balanced. Dealer calls, says they're ready. Cost was $231.85! 2.5 hours labor - $187.50, 4 valve stems - $10.60, stick on weights - $20.62, plus tax. Dealer says they charge a premium for M! style wheels!? This sound ridiculous to anyone? Dealer says normal size (non M) wheels are $69.95 for all four! Thoughts. Richard Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E30 Bumpers Rich: The human finger can be trained to detect a mono-molecular film of oil while the human dark-adapted eye can detect one photon (The Dancing Wu Li Master - Gary Zukav). 25lb is nothing. Neil Deshpande - Performer of 2 E30 bumper conversions! *** "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You felt the removal of ~25 pounds from a ~2,800 car? Wow. So, you can also tell how much gas is in the tank (within at least a 1/4 of a tank) without looking at the fuel gauge? Regards, Rich - not nearly sensitive enough to small changes I make on my cars.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:16:00 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience Yep - I used to make it a point of watching the process when I first bought my 95 M3. It would take about 15 minutes per tire to do it right and not screw up the wheel, and yes I saw several times where it took two guys to man handle the tire/wheel to get the bead to seat correctly. It also depended on the tire, seemed like Michelins went on way easier than the yoko A032R. Now that it's a race car I don't care what the wheels look like since I'll bend'em eventually. Plus my sponsor does it for free ;-) But $250+ is fooking nuts. Maybe they used gold weights. Marco sponsored by www.rennwerks.com - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KMS - Brett Anderson Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience Chris, of course, has mounted E36 M3 tyres so often that he's able to do them in 5 minutes. Personally, even though I did them for 7 years, I never was able to do them by myself, they take two people about 10 minutes per tyre. Then center balancing, which absolutely sucks because it NEVER works out right first time. The only way to correctly balance the wheels is to place the weights as far to the outside as possible. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Friot, Chris > Well let's add it up. > > 2.5 hrs = 150 minutes > 150 minutes / 4 tires = 37.5 minutes per tire > > The real question is what was the tech doing for the remaining > 32.5 minutes per tire! > > You got robbed! You should demand to speak with the owner of the > dealership and ask him if this is the way he expects his > dealership to be charging for work? If so you should find another > serivce provider. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:31:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Recent dealer experience You, you got ripped off. So, repeat after me. I will never have a dealer mount my tires again... Seriously, It is my experience is that most dealer does not have much experience working on tires. That is just not their specialty. I have 2 badly scratched OEM wheels to prove it. You are better off using a local tire shop that work on mounting tires on big wheels on a daily basis. I usually pay $20 at a local tire shop for mount and balancing including new metal stem per wheel. They would even let me stand next to them and watch them work with their brand new Hunter machine:) Joe - - --- Richard Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thought I might share a recent dealer experience > with everyone and hopefully get a response from some > of you regarding the cost of work performed. I went > to my local dealer to have four tires mounted and > balanced for my 1995 M3. As I am new to this area > and leery of taking my car into any random tire shop > I thought the dealer would provide me with quality > work and attention to detail. I wanted all weights > on the inside of the wheel. I was prepared to pay > somewhat of a premium for them to do the work, but > what I paid seems ridiculously high. So, I > purchased four new Yokohamas from Tire Rack and > removed my wheels and existing tires from the car. > With the car sitting on jack stands in my garage for > a coolant flush and minor brake work I dropped of > tires and wheels to be mounted and balanced. Dealer > calls, says they're ready. Cost was $231.85! 2.5 > hours labor - $187.50, 4 valve stems - $10.60, stick > on weights - $20.62, plus tax. Dealer says they > charge a premium for M! > style wheels!? This sound ridiculous to anyone? > Dealer says normal size (non M) wheels are $69.95 > for all four! Thoughts. > > Richard Bennett __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:33:11 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] E30 Bumpers I put one of my spare wheels in the wheel well of my car when I tow it to the track. One weekend during a warmup session something just didn't feel right. After I pull into the paddock I open up the trunk and see the spare wheel. duh. nice preflight Lindbergh. so yes- I know I felt a ~25lb difference. now the gas tank thing would be tougher since it's closer to the center of mass of the car, but I could probabaly tell a difference between full and a 1/2 tank. Marco - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil Deshpande Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] E30 Bumpers Rich: The human finger can be trained to detect a mono-molecular film of oil while the human dark-adapted eye can detect one photon (The Dancing Wu Li Master - Gary Zukav). 25lb is nothing. Neil Deshpande - Performer of 2 E30 bumper conversions! *** "Dorffer, Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You felt the removal of ~25 pounds from a ~2,800 car? Wow. So, you can also tell how much gas is in the tank (within at least a 1/4 of a tank) without looking at the fuel gauge? Regards, Rich - not nearly sensitive enough to small changes I make on my cars.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Recent dealer experience Brett: An interesting insider view on this process. I think I paid $35/wheel to mount and balance my recent Kumho tires on Throwing Star wheels on the M5 at Discount Tire. Including disposal. I have not driven them yet 5 days later (Shame on me!), but my room-mate thinks they ride smooth as glass. Of course, there may be all kinds of 'internal' shortcuts they took with the work, but the last set stayed on 30k miles. I find that any time you pay someone else to do something at a normal hourly rate there _have_ to be shortcuts. That is why I do my own work as far as possible. What stuns me is that the dealerships are charging close per hour to mount tires to what my first employer was charging for graduate engineering work that I was doing for their clients. And, it was hard work with a lot of graduate and 800-level (PhD) theory involved coupled with having to make it work on production solutions at, typically, under $2/vehicle. When we changed tires on trucks and such during testing, the mechanics and test engineers that did it (at least with associate degrees and sometimes with full engg undergrad degrees, but perhaps poor communication skills) they were billed at $60/hr. OTOH, I had heard it was far easier to hire good engineers than to hire good mechanics. Never quite worked that out. Anyone? In fact, one of our engineers got into an argument with one of the mechanics and took the ASE certification, passing it easily. On the hands-on side he had developed a turbo for his Z-car and now calibrates throttle body maps for GM's Corvette. Neil Deshpande - engineer by day/DIY mechanic in the evenings and on weekends P.S. I think I'll have some time to take the M5 out for a spin this weekend! *** "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The price is high, but not unfair. What happened was that you allowed them to charge what it was worth for them to do it, not what it was worth to you. Mounting and balancing, especially stock E36 M3 wheels and MRoadster wheels, will NEVER pay what it's worth. It's like wheel alignments, you lose money on every on you do, if you do it correctly. Shops can't charge what it takes, normally. Here, it appears they did, and then, perhaps, some more. Labour is 0.5 higher than what I would have charged, and I'd have lost money on the job. Valve stems at $2.65 each, a little high. Stick on weights, if they're the good quality coated ones, as opposed to the "break off" strips, then they cost the dealership over a buck fifty a piece on average. Even with a Hunter TC3500, these wheels are a two man job, and not even close to easy then, either. The problem is the retention hump on both sides of the wheel, to prevent high cornering forces from peeling the tyres off the beads. Those, combined with super low profile tyres makes for a huge amount of work. I'd say, overall, you paid a little more than you should have. Probably should have been closer to $200. I don't think you got ripped off though, not by a long shot. Brett Anderson KMS ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6644 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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