[uucdigest] Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6678
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] more I-6s [uuc] Straight sixes - move over BMW! [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch RE: [uuc] Spam-er, marketing e-mail from BMW NA RE: [uuc] M3 is 99% ordinary? RE: [uuc] Spam-er, marketing e-mail from BMW NA RE: [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:31:59 -0500 From: "Ben White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] more I-6s <snip> Dennis Liu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: <snip, again>, as far as I > can dimly > recall, BMW > > is the ONLY maker currently selling in-line six > engines (correct? > everyone > > else has moved to a Vee configuration, right?)> ____________ Dennis, There are still a few I-6s on the market. GM has a fairly new I-6 in some of it's small suvs and perhaps pickups, Toyota/Lexus, and perhaps even Jeep still offers one. Best, Ben White/Ocean Springs, MS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:31:11 +0100 From: "Andrew Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Straight sixes - move over BMW! Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: "What got me curious is not so much that, as far as I can dimly recall, BMW is the ONLY maker currently selling in-line six engines (correct? everyone else has moved to a Vee configuration, right?), but rather that BMW mentions that its legendary inline six-cylinder engine is available in 2.5 and 3.0-liter displacements -- and totally neglects to include the M3's 3246cc motor. I presume it's because M3s are still selling (relatively) well, and the 330 and 325 need a bit of promotion?" Aside from the others mentioned in this thread, TVR sells straight sixes in its road cars. They come in various forms. Probably worth mentioning: 350 bhp/290 lb-ft 3.6 straight 6 390 bhp/310 lb-ft 3.6 straight 6 400 bhp/320 lb-ft 4.0 straight 6 440 bhp/350 lb-ft 4.2 straight 6 All naturally aspirated (That's 105 bhp per litre, AND 83 lb-ft per litre, for the top engine.) The performance, given typical TVR kerb weight (1100 kg), is shattering. Emissions are competitive, fuel economy is not. Also BMW NA in its press release forgot to mention the 320i, which it sells in Canada and plainly forgot about. The smallest six (2.0 or 2.2 litres) has always been regarded as the smoothest of them all. Andy T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:35:36 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch I received no reponses, so I'll try this again. Is it typical for these things to act up a bit before failing completely? Stan - ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Jackson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:27 AM Subject: E30 Brake Switch > I recently had my brake switch act up. This is the switch located on the > brake pedal. My brake lights quit, so I tried to check that switch. I > never got it removed, but just by playing with it the lights started working > again. Should I be changing the switch (imminent failure?) or was it more > likely just a bit loose/bad connection? > > Thanks, > > Stan > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:07:05 -0400 From: "Andrew E. Skopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Spam-er, marketing e-mail from BMW NA In its attempt to copy the 3 series, Lexus builds its IS300 with an inline 6. Andrew E. Skopp Dennis Liu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What got me curious is not so much that, as far as I can dimly recall, BMW > is the ONLY maker currently selling in-line six engines (correct? everyone > else has moved to a Vee configuration, right?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:12:38 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] M3 is 99% ordinary? Lee wrote: >I think you may have slightly missed the point of the e-mail. Yes, the E30 >M3 is very different from the non-motorsports cars (more so than the other >M3's), but brakes are brakes. The suspension is suspension & although it is >different, there's nothing rocket science about it--the torque specs are >even the same. I agree 100% here. >I do disagree with Neil about the S14. I bet there's probably a handful of >experts nationwide as they are much more sofisticated than most BMW engines. >How many guys can really do a proper valve adjustment, base CO adjustment, >base idle adjustment & TB synch? I'll disagree with this part. Lee you might be surprised as to the number of people out there that do their own work, including everything listed above. The valve adjustment can be done with parts from Pep Boys for crying out loud, you think we really need Snap-On NASA calibrated feeler guages to shove under an ///M special production bucket shim? Everything is quite simple about these cars but things get blown out of proportion on email lists. Yes you need a couple of special tools but that's it everything else you can tear down and rebuild with your Crapsman tools. :-) You don't need so called "experts", all you need is a decent set of tools, a half way decent manual and perhaps a person you can call when you're ready to punt and that's it. You can service these cars completely by yourself. Heck I'll say the cars are 100% ordinary, forget about 99. ;-) Carlos 91 M3 hasn't seen a mechanic in 4 years and it hasn't blowed up yet 88 iS Vanilla flava ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:25:46 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Spam-er, marketing e-mail from BMW NA Mea culpa! I was totally wrong in the first psrt of my statement. I totally forgot about the Lexus IS300, and the GM/Jeep SUV engines (since I was referring to the US market, I'm not including the Australian and British engines. :-) I was thinking about MB and Jaguar dropping their I-6s, sacrificing the inherent smoothness of the inline design for the packaging efficiency of the Vee design. Thanks for all of the responses. But no one addressed the main thrust of my post (Andrew did point out that Canada has the 320i), which was that BMW is promoting its "legendary" inline-6 motors but totally left out the larger displacement one in the M3.... vty, - --Dennis - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rob Levinson Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 10:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Spam-er, marketing e-mail from BMW NA Other currently-available I6 engines: Toyota/Lexus (IS300) Jeep (all models with 6-cylinder option) Ford (Truck engines and Australian Falcon - http://www.newfalcon.com.au/ ) GM (Vortec I6 truck engine - http://media.gm.com/news/releases/g000823c.html) Dodge (Diesel truck) Otherwise, yes... the other stalwart I6 car engines long admired such as the Mercedes and Jaguar are indeed history. I doubt many people miss the I6 car engines in older domestics. At least we still have the "right' pancake (boxer) sixes around - Porsche, Subaru, and Honda (Goldwing). Rumors of a new BMW boxer 6 in a bike have been floating around for almost 20 years, and that ought to be interesting if it ever materializes. - - Rob - ---- Original Message ---- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Spam-er, marketing e-mail from BMW NA > >What got me curious is not so much that, as far as I can dimly >recall, BMW >is the ONLY maker currently selling in-line six engines (correct? >everyone >else has moved to a Vee configuration, right?), but rather that BMW >mentions >that its legendary inline six-cylinder engine is available in 2.5 and >3.0-liter displacements -- and totally neglects to include the M3's >3246cc >motor. I presume it's because M3s are still selling (relatively) >well, and >the 330 and 325 need a bit of promotion? > >Just some idle speculation on a slow day.... > >vty, > >--Dennis > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:54:36 -0500 From: "Malcolm Reitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch Stan, I don't have any direct experience with the E30, but the switch on my E36 acted flakey for a while before it flaked out all together. I'd replace the switch and be done with it. You don't want to chance getting rear-ended by some 3-ton SUV that couldn't tell you were stopping. Malcolm '88 M5 '98 328i - -----Original Message----- From: Stan Jackson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch I received no reponses, so I'll try this again. Is it typical for these things to act up a bit before failing completely? Stan - ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Jackson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:27 AM Subject: E30 Brake Switch > I recently had my brake switch act up. This is the switch located on the > brake pedal. My brake lights quit, so I tried to check that switch. I > never got it removed, but just by playing with it the lights started working > again. Should I be changing the switch (imminent failure?) or was it more > likely just a bit loose/bad connection? > > Thanks, > > Stan > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:47:48 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question Where I come from we call this stealing. Sorry, if you can do the job in less than the book hours, you shouldn't charge book hours. To do so is just not being a decent person. If you take longer than book hours, there should be one of two choices. Either the job took longer than book hours because of the condition of the car or something else you found wrong, or you took longer because you are not proficient enough at the task. In the first case, the customer should be charged & in the second, the customer should not be charged. The other question would be, "how long did it actually take". I know a 7 prolly has a more complex locking system, but I replaced the lock cylinders (including the glovebox, trunk & ignition) & associated hardware (i.e. removing the door panels) in my E30 in under 2 hours. It's possbile that they might have charged him for some complete central locking diagnosis & replacement when all they did was lube a couple of parts. Anyway, if I got bill for more hours than they had the car, I would start to wonder this stuff. So, he dropped it off at 8 & picked it up at 4. 8 hours. Did the mechanic have lunch? Some smoke breaks? What about cleanup? What about writing the service & billing tickets. I would guess the mechanic prolly worked on the car 2-3 hours at most. Hopefully your friend remembers this & votes with his wallet next time he considers a new car. Lee > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Wynne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 6:47 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question > > > A guy I know had his 7 series into the local BMW dealer for out of > warranty repairs. He dropped it off at 8:00am and picked it > up at 4:00pm. > > Looking at the bill he was charged for 10 hours or so of > labor (I can't > remember the exact numbers - but it was 2-3 hours more than the time > the dealer had the car). > > He asked how many mechanics had worked on the car - the > answer was one. > > He asked how they could work on it longer that it was in > their possession - > the answer was that he was charged the book rate and this his mechanic > (lucky for him) was faster than the book time. If it had > taken longer, then > he would have paid the same (they said). > > I would not mind having a good mechanic that can fix my car > in less time > that the books calls for. But it would SEEM tempting to the > mechanics to > rush through all the jobs. Do 12 hours worth of work in 8 > hours and make > 50% more money. > > Is this NORMAL for BMW dealers? > > Dennis > > At 11:19 PM 08/18/2003 +0100, Andrew Thomas wrote: > >Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > I hesitated to bring up the dealer part too, as I didn't > want my first > > > post to stir up problems and/or be whiney. I was in shock > > > when I was > > > quoted $179, and when I pressed him on it, his response > was "well, the > > > tech has to take the wheel off". :( He also quoted > > > something like $485 > > > for replacing the lower control arm bushings. When I asked > > > him whether > > > he was sure those weren't warranty items, he came back and > > > said yes. It > > > sounds like these are fairly commonly replaced items on E46s, > > > but is it > > > questionable whether they're warranty or customer pay items? > > > >I inferred from Josh's post that this dealer was in the > metropolitan area of > >Atlanta. Egregious charges are not unfamiliar coming from a > dealer in the > >centre of town whose customer base is perhaps less likely to > quibble. I > >used to think that there was a BMW standard way of dealing > with warranty vs > >out-of-warranty remedial work but I have found that dealers > out of town are > >more likely to cover something under the warranty - or > extend goodwill to > >the customer - than a dealer in the city. > > > >I imagine this is partly to do with the value of warranty > work vs. the cost > >of labour inside and outside of the metropolitan area, and > the simple law of > >supply and demand. > > > >Andy T > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6678 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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