[uucdigest] Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6679
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch Re: [uuc] more I-6s RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question [uuc] Re: slightly OT: autocross workers RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question RE: [uuc] Book repair charges RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question [uuc] RE: [uucdigest] Inline 6es ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:03:55 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] Fw: E30 Brake Switch >I received no reponses, so I'll try this again. Is it typical for these >things to act up a bit before failing completely? Although my brake lights have always worked, my switch has been acting up for the 4 years I've owned it (the E30 M3) and trips the CHECK light every so often. I noticed my 325 does the same. Carlos 91 M3 <-had no brake lights once but they started working again when I plugged the switch back in. :-) 88 iS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:26:34 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] more I-6s And Volvo! The S80 and XC90 both have the 2.8T (and 2.9 na in the S80) inline 6, except it's mounted transversely, rather than longitudinally. Martin Bullen '95 M3 '97 Z3 2.8 In a message dated 8/20/03 1:55:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dennis Liu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What got me curious is not so much that, as far as I can dimly recall, BMW > is the ONLY maker currently selling in-line six engines (correct?� everyone > else has moved to a Vee configuration, right?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:27:41 -0500 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question Actually, my friend's 7 did NOT have a locking problem. There was a question about that and dealer overcharging, but I changed the subject line. In any case, several folks said this was "normal" for dealers/stealers. As someone else pointed out, if they are charging book on everything then you could be paying twice for the same R&R. If to replace part A you have to R&R the radiator, and to replace part B you also have to remove the radiator, then paying "book" to replace both parts is a rip-off and is easy money for the dealership and the tech. Of course, this is the same dealership that has a financing department that marks ups EVERY loan and lease. They would rather you take your business elsewhere (financing-wise) than give you financing at the "buy rate". Dennis 330i silver/black/manual/sp/pp/xenon/cd (for now) At 10:47 AM 08/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Where I come from we call this stealing. Sorry, if you can do the job in >less than the book hours, you shouldn't charge book hours. To do so is just >not being a decent person. If you take longer than book hours, there should >be one of two choices. Either the job took longer than book hours because >of the condition of the car or something else you found wrong, or you took >longer because you are not proficient enough at the task. In the first >case, the customer should be charged & in the second, the customer should >not be charged. > >The other question would be, "how long did it actually take". I know a 7 >prolly has a more complex locking system, but I replaced the lock cylinders >(including the glovebox, trunk & ignition) & associated hardware (i.e. >removing the door panels) in my E30 in under 2 hours. It's possbile that >they might have charged him for some complete central locking diagnosis & >replacement when all they did was lube a couple of parts. Anyway, if I got >bill for more hours than they had the car, I would start to wonder this >stuff. > >So, he dropped it off at 8 & picked it up at 4. 8 hours. Did the mechanic >have lunch? Some smoke breaks? What about cleanup? What about writing the >service & billing tickets. I would guess the mechanic prolly worked on the >car 2-3 hours at most. > >Hopefully your friend remembers this & votes with his wallet next time he >considers a new car. > >Lee > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dennis Wynne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 6:47 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question > > > > > > A guy I know had his 7 series into the local BMW dealer for out of > > warranty repairs. He dropped it off at 8:00am and picked it > > up at 4:00pm. > > > > Looking at the bill he was charged for 10 hours or so of > > labor (I can't > > remember the exact numbers - but it was 2-3 hours more than the time > > the dealer had the car). > > > > He asked how many mechanics had worked on the car - the > > answer was one. > > > > He asked how they could work on it longer that it was in > > their possession - > > the answer was that he was charged the book rate and this his mechanic > > (lucky for him) was faster than the book time. If it had > > taken longer, then > > he would have paid the same (they said). > > > > I would not mind having a good mechanic that can fix my car > > in less time > > that the books calls for. But it would SEEM tempting to the > > mechanics to > > rush through all the jobs. Do 12 hours worth of work in 8 > > hours and make > > 50% more money. > > > > Is this NORMAL for BMW dealers? > > > > Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:32:33 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: slightly OT: autocross workers Jay, part of being in charge of such events means having to make tough decisions that might not sit well with everyone. You are trying to balance the needs of the organization with the desires of the participants to squeeze more into their lives than they have time for. The good of the organization is more important here. You're already rotating groups so that the same people don't have to be there at the same time every event. This is commendable. Other organizations would be less flexible. Hopefully you also have some kind of rotation on the work groups so that the work times also rotate with the drive times. Make a rule that says you have to work to get any awards, points, or other credit for attending. Take role when each work group starts. Anyone who misses their work assignment without first checking in loses their results for the day. If the event is just for fun (no points or awards, etc.), then advise everyone that if they don't work, they won't be allowed back for future events. If someone asks for special dispensation due to unusual circumstances, ask them to try to find someone to work for them. Only excuse them if you can find someone to take their place in the work session. This sounds kind of tough, but if you don't to it, there will be no one to work the later run groups. This is not fair to everyone. Other things we do at GGC that helps a lot is to provide for pre-registration through our web site. During registration, members pick a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice for work assignments. When registration, run groups and work groups are already pre-determined. Walk-ups are added the day of the event wherever they can be fit in. Sometimes an extra run group is added, sometimes not. Maybe I'm not seeing this from the point of view of the people who want to leave early, but then again, I don't live in Hawaii. For me, autocrossing IS the better thing to do with my time, not surfing or sunning on the beach. But we only autocross once a month, and the beach will be there tomorrow. Hopefully. HTH, Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA Former autocross coordinator >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:37:51 -1000 >From: Jay G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] slightly OT: autocross workers > >hey gruppe...i'm one of the "mini-officials" at our local >autocross, and we're having a bit of a dilemma...we cant >figure out a way to balance the workers for each heat...most >of the people who attend want to race and work in the >morning heats, which leaves a lot less people to work in the >afternoon heats...it seems like the same people always end >up staying the entire day, just to cover for those who leave >early, which isnt fair... > >we currently have four heats, and the classes are rotated >each month so that the classes run at different times of the >day every month (classes in heat 1 run first this month, >then they'll run second next month, etc.)...and the heats >are set up so that they try to have the same number of >people (e.g. stock classes and modified classes in heat 1; >street prepared in heat 2, etc)... > >suggestions we're looking at is to make it mandatory to let >the "chief of workers" or "chief of registration" know >before the first heat of the day that they have to leave >early...another option was to have someone NOT run in their >respective heat only if they could find someone to cover for >their work assignment in the heat they're supposed to run >in... > >we dont want to enforce harsh rules, which may turn drivers >away, or even scare off new drivers to the sport... > >any suggestions as to how to get enough workers for the >entire day??? what kinds of strategies do you folks use in >your area??? any and all replies greatly >appreciated...THANX!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:49:16 -0400 From: "Chris Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question My experience is that the vast majority of dealers charge book rate. It seems to me this is like the discussion I had with someone the other day about restaurants charging a massive markup on pop (or soda, if you prefer). Yes, they do charge a couple bucks for ten cents worth of pop. However, they are working to a bottom line. If they charge less for pop, they'll just charge more for food. There's a local independent that charges actual hours. They do good work. They are anything but cheap. I have a feeling if they charged book rate, it would end up working out pretty much the same in the end. Hourly rates, disposal fees, etc., can all be tweaked to get where you want to be. Chris B. '94 325i <---- I'll fix it myself, thanks. - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robinson, Lee Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 10:48 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question Where I come from we call this stealing. Sorry, if you can do the job in less than the book hours, you shouldn't charge book hours. To do so is just not being a decent person. If you take longer than book hours, there should be one of two choices. Either the job took longer than book hours because of the condition of the car or something else you found wrong, or you took longer because you are not proficient enough at the task. In the first case, the customer should be charged & in the second, the customer should not be charged. <snip> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:06:06 -0700 From: "Grant Low" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Book repair charges Dennis says: > As someone else pointed out, if they are charging book on > everything then you could be paying twice for the same R&R. > If to replace part A you have to R&R the radiator, and to > replace part B you also have to remove the radiator, then > paying "book" to replace both parts is a rip-off and is easy > money for the dealership and the tech. /lurk Who sets "book" rates anyway? Is there a slow mechanic somewhere that is the benchmark for these? I would think there would be an annual review on how long these jobs ACTUALLY take. Then something like the 80th percentile value would become the new "book rate". Quick (and presumably good) mechanics would be rewarded for their efficiency, while slow (and presumably not-as-good) mechanics would immediately see the need to brush up on their skills. I understand about snow belt cars and unforseen problems and yada x 3, but the current process of getting paid 16 hours for 8 hours of work seems like a sham to me, especially at $100+/hr. Grant ex-325 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:13:33 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Book repair charges - WAS Central Locking Question "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where I come from we call this stealing. Sorry, if you can do the job > in less than the book hours, you shouldn't charge book hours. To do > so is just not being a decent person. So, Lee, If you do your assigned full-time job in fewer than 40 hours/week for which you get paid, how do YOU reimburse your company for the time you've been writing emails to this list? alex f ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:44:41 -0700 From: "Paolo Ambrogio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: [uucdigest] Inline 6es Always liked straight 6 motors. In my 'formative' years I had an interest in the stovebolt 6 as an alternative to the V8. Bought a '64 Plymouth Valiant Convertible with the 225 cid slant six. The car with which I moved to LA from Texas and survived the 114 deg temperatures in Arizona and 2 years of LA commuting to the first offices. Engine architecture is a topic of interest. The inline six has a perfect primary balance. Alex Issigonis was interested in a 6 cyl mini; difficult to put a BMW six in the current Mini, OBMWC. Paolo Sant'Ambrogio (whose next car will be six cyl. and German) Santa Monica, CA '92 318is (unfortunately not 325) '88 R100GS (perfect primary balance) ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6679 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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