[uucdigest] Friday, August 29 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6712
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] E30 Rear Diff Bushing Part Numbers RE: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice RE: [uuc] re: labor rates/was someone hit my car Re: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice Re: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... RE: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:59:22 -0400 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E30 Rear Diff Bushing Part Numbers I don't know if you have heard back on this yet, or not. 33 17 1 128 492 is a superseded number, new one is: 33 17 1 135 244 only used on 325iX models First number I don't show in my CD HTH Ed Stan Jackson Jr. wrote: >Wondering if someone could check on this for me. One of the following two >parts has presumably superseded the other. Which is the old part and which >is the new part? They are both rear diff bushings for the E30. Sorry, I >don't have complete part numbers. > >1134 802 >1128 492 > >Thanks, > >Stan > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:01:46 -0400 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice Either that "oft-quoted" list of weights was written by a drunk, or BMW has gone to some *VERY* heavy accessories. The shipping weight of an M52 long block is 298.5lb. The alternator, PS pump, AC compressor, Exhaust manifolds and intake do NOT weigh 200lb combined. 100, maybe. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Knight > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:43 PM > As far as I can tell the LS6 in the Vette is lighter > than an M52 (engine - not the WWII German tank). > There's an oft-quoted list of weights on the 'net > putting the M52 engine at 500 lbs. The LS6 is stated > as 497.2 lbs with accessories. Nothing like a set of > good old fashioned push rods. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:31:06 -0400 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] re: labor rates/was someone hit my car > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 4. BMW NA's practices of having dealers use proprietary test > equipment and > either withholding or charging for service info, etc., have made it > difficult for owners to find independent shops who actually CAN > service the > cars per factory procedures. This is not going to be an issue much longer. Thanks to the long arm of the EPA, all independent shops are now able to access ALL factory data. BMW has a web site, www.bmwtis.com, that has a web based version of their diagnostic systems. It's available for anyone to access, via paypal payments of $20 per day or $2500 per year. This web site has come about thanks to the pressure from the OSS group. Not that old English secret service thing, but a group of less than 20 people in the US that have pushed hard enough, with EPA help, to get BMW to release what is necessary. In this case, OSS means Online Service System. The BMW, stand alone, diagnostic computers are available them, via www.centrallettershop.com , albeit at $15,600. The www.bmwtis.com site is up and running and adding functionality every week. With the use of a pass through tool, this site will allow coding/programming of any BMW, in addition to full diagnosis. FWIW, this system has, essentially, existed in Europe for several years now. The OSS group has pushed for it's introduction to the US, and has succeeded in that goal. The OSS group will be meeting again in late September, with BMW and EPA representatives. This meeting will solve more issues related to this system of information sharing. It's the OSS's point that more people will buy BMWs if they know they can get them fixed, reliably, by their local shop, rather than having to travel to a dealer. While it's apparently in BMWs best interest to force all their customers into the dealers, that's not really true. BMW dealers are franchises, and as such, the franchise owner (BMW NA) must do what they can to support them. However, new BMW vehicle sales are in the best interest of BMW NA. So supplying the information to independents, if it helps BMW sales, will help BMW NA. The discussions have gone so far as to broach the subject of, non dealer performed, warranty work. While that may be a long way off, given the labour rate discrepencies between dealers and real independents, this is also something that may end up in BMW NA's favour. Brett Anderson KMS www.koalamotorsport.com OSS committee member ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:37:24 -0700 From: Bora Akyol (BMW) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice Brett With all due respect, I think you will find that the combined weight of the items will be more like 150 lbs. I took out the compressor from my E30 M3 including the bracket etc, and they weighed around 40-50 lbs. PS pump, bracket, pulley is around 10-15 lbs. Alternator is even heavier than the A/C compressor. And the exhaust and intake should be around 20-25 lbs at least. This is on an E30 M3, but I would guess that unless BMW has gone to using titanium on the pumps on the E46, I would expect the weights to be similar. Bora On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 21:01 US/Pacific, KMS - Brett Anderson wrote: > Either that "oft-quoted" list of weights was written by a drunk, or > BMW has > gone to some *VERY* heavy accessories. > > The shipping weight of an M52 long block is 298.5lb. The alternator, > PS > pump, AC compressor, Exhaust manifolds and intake do NOT weigh 200lb > combined. 100, maybe. > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > >> -----Original Message----- >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Knight >> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:43 PM >> As far as I can tell the LS6 in the Vette is lighter >> than an M52 (engine - not the WWII German tank). >> There's an oft-quoted list of weights on the 'net >> putting the M52 engine at 500 lbs. The LS6 is stated >> as 497.2 lbs with accessories. Nothing like a set of >> good old fashioned push rods. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:55:01 -0500 From: Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... Dennis Liu wrote: >A quick response. > >Neil, you seem to agree that there IS a diminution in value for EVERY car; it's just >a question of how much. E.g., a new E46 M3, a significant amount, a '99 Cavalier not >very much. Most tellingly, you wrote, "Most pedestrian cars' values would only be >affected by maybe a few hundred dollars, if at all." > > No, I don't seem to agree. Again, I said only MAY, not WILL. There is a difference. >So, we're agreed then, even if it's only a matter of a few dollars, there IS a >difference in value? I'm going back to my original proposition. Let's call it Car >X. You have two identical cars. They each have Y miles, and are Z years old. Same >condition. Same history. Now smack the first car, then repair it. Offer both for >sale. A buyer will want the second car, all other things being equal. To sell the >first car to the buyer, one would have to LOWER THE PRICE. That difference is the >diminution in value. Again, this is true whether the diminution in value is $5,000, >$500, $50 or >$5. > > No we are not agreed, and likely never will. I already answered this once. If, and only IF there is a difference in value, it would not be the large figures most of you seem to imagine it would be. Your above scenario is a practical improbability, and purely hypothetical, and since I am not speaking hypothetically, I'll not go there again until you find those two cars and preform a practical demonstration. >I'm not arguing that a pedestrian sedan will suffer anywhere near a great a loss as a >rare classic. I'm just saying that EVERY CAR that has been involved in an accident >DOES suffer a loss of value. > And I'm saying that they don't necessarily or automatically loose value at all. >Now then, WHY is a car worth less? One could argue that the reason WHY is not >important, because in the marketplace, every buyer will prefer a car that hasn't been >hit. But let's delve into this a bit. Why is the car worth less? > Why IS very important. That is the crux of my argument. It may not be worth less. >Because not every repair job does in fact make the car the same as it was prior to >the repair. > For older cars, it's often non-OEM replacement parts. It's incredibly tough to get paint to match (not to mention matching the durability of factory paint). And some jobs are so shoddy, the functionality of the car is impaired. In the theoretical world, >the car is repaired to the exact condition it was prior to the accident; since, in >the real world, that happens in a small percentage of incidents, that possibility - >likelihood - that the repair job is not perfect means that buyers will prefer a car >that hasn't been hit. > > I will not go over this again, as I did last time. Re read the last posting for my response to this repeated arguement. You just reiterated my point that only some repairs are not what they should be. These are the ONLY cars that should be devalued, if any. I addressed this last time. Listen up this time: Repairs are the responsability of the shop and the owner. The companies' responsability is ONLY to compensate (i.e., pay) for the damage. If you pick a shit hole shop to do your repairs, that's your call, but don't whine that now your car is worth less. If it is that important to you, then take the time to find a shop that will do the repairs properly the first time. >As to how to calculate that diminution... it's not an exact, down to three decimal >places calculation. It's an approximation. But just because it's approximate rather >than scientifically precise does NOT mean that the victim >shouldn't be compensated for his/her loss!! If your car is stolen, can one calculate >the EXACT amount the car was worth for the check to be cut? Of course not. But you >still expect to be paid by the insurance company, >right? > > Are we discussing thefts now, too? >Bottom line -- if I'm involved in an accident where I'm not at fault, why should I >not be compensated for the *full* extent of my loss? > > Don't put words in my mouth. Once again, and for the last time, you SHOULD be compensated for your loss, but no more. I never have, am not now, and never will say one should not. Bottom line is if you think the car that you may buy is not repaired properly, then don't buy it. No one is forcing you. Diminished value is based upon the premise that a buyer will not pay as much for a car if it is known to have been in an accident. If the market were as selective as you make out, no damaged cars would ever be bought or sold, yet the majority of the cars on the road have been damaged and repaired. You'd probably wet yourself if you found out how many cars are damaged and repaired before they leave the factory or the dealer's showroom. Try to claim diminished value there. Neil ..note to self: must find page down button... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:58:38 -0400 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice Hi Bora, "With all due respect". There's no relation between the S14 and the S52. The AC compressor on an S52 is literally half the size of that on the S14. Headers are 1/3rd the size, and don't forget the intake is plastic. PS pump is similar in size, not sure about weight. Alternator is about 2/3rds the size. I'm sure you get my point. Even at 150lb, that still comes up 50lb short of the "advertised" weight on this "oft-mentioned" list. I have an M52 in a crate in the shop. If I can find the time, I'll weigh it. It has all the accessories, even flywheel. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bora Akyol (BMW) > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:37 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] <WOT> Z06 vette advice > With all due respect, I think you will find that > the combined weight of the items will be more like > 150 lbs. > > I took out the compressor from my E30 M3 including the bracket > etc, and they weighed around 40-50 lbs. > PS pump, bracket, pulley is around 10-15 lbs. > Alternator is even heavier than the A/C compressor. > And the exhaust and intake should be around 20-25 lbs at least. > > This is on an E30 M3, but I would guess that unless BMW has gone > to using titanium on the pumps on the E46, I would expect the weights > to be > similar. > > Bora ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:07:56 -0400 From: "Mark A. Selleck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... Insurance is supposed to put your vehicle "back to where it was", and it's easy to let the body shop do it. But sometimes it irks me when I see what the "standard charge" is for simple replacement of parts. Recently a tree limb fell on my truck, snapping off the radio antenna, the exterior passenger side mirror, caused very minor denting of the hood, and a small dent on the fender near the antenna. Low estimate from a reputable "standard" body shop was $1200.00. Seemed excessive to me, so I made some calls: Mazda dealer, mirror $65, installation $75. Radio antenna, $25, installation $75. Dent Wizard, hood dents $250, fender $180. I got written estimates, sent them to my insurance company with the following offer: I take it to the body shop and it costs the insurance company $1100 (I have $100 deductible), OR, they cut me a check for $900, and I take my time to get everything done going the less expensive route. They cut me a check. I let the Mazda dealer install the antenna, I spent about 2 minutes installing the mirror myself ( $2250/hr.??), then I spent 3 hours at Dent Wizard. Net pay for my time, including drive time, $555/4 hours = $138.75/hr. That's a little more than I usually make. ( I didn't get the dents on the hood fixed, as they were so minor I decided I could happily live with them, for $250 in my pocket. I told the insurance company exactly what I was going to do, and all they cared about was that they were saving $200.) After the repairs were made I drove by my agent's office, and he photographed the truck to show that the truck WAS repaired, for future reference. The hood dents are so small there's no apparent damage unless one looks closely. If this situation were with my BMW I might not go the route I chose in this case. Except in the case of the mirror. The quote for the mirror got my "cheap genes" lit up, so I took the action I did. Deciding to not repair something that is not easily noticed, or that creates safety issues, is a personal decision that can have future repercussions. But if you OWN your vehicle, it's your decision, not a whole lot different from a body shop/insurance company wanting after-market parts to be used instead of OEM. Insurance rates could be lowered if insurance companies really wanted to work at it. But, if it doesn't save them any money, why bother? My insurance company's adjuster recently told me that even though they believed I was in the right in a parking lot incident, they were going to pay the other party involved because it was decided it would cost them more to go to court on it than it would cost to pay off. That it puts me at risk, if I have another accident this year, is of no concern to them. That would just MAKE them money, in the end. Mark Selleck '85 535i ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6712 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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