[uucdigest] Saturday, September 13 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6747
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] AAA Pre Purchase Inspection Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? < LARGELY OT RANT> [uuc] Communist Rants RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? < LARGELY OT RANT> RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> Re: [uuc] AAA Pre Purchase Inspection Re: [uuc] AAA Pre Purchase Inspection ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:12:04 -0700 From: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] AAA Pre Purchase Inspection My sister is looking for a used E36 and she wants me to inspect one that she likes, but I don't have the time to do it. I remember AAA had some kind of low cost pre purchase inspection for members years ago. Does anyone know if AAA (specifically AAA in the SF Bay Area) will still do a pre-purchase inspection for members? If so are the inspections worth anything? I know most BMW mechanics do pre-purchase inspections but my sister is too cheap to pay what they charge. Kevin Kelly BMW CCA 50039 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:35:10 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? < LARGELY OT RANT> Actually, as you point out, it IS that simple. Businesses will pursue the most economical solution. Nobody said that was fair or good for the environment. But based on the thread, China is clearly the best place to manufacture. Stan Chris Baker wrote: > > As has been pointed out already, it's not nearly that simple. > > Chinese manufacturers don't have to deal with many costs of their Western > competition. Worker's compensation. Benefits of all kinds. Environmental > regulations. Fair wages. Etc., etc., etc.. The list is very long. > > On top of that, Chinese manufacturing is effectively subsidized by a > currency pegged at about 8:1 to the U.S. dollar. And their is a huge amount > of bad debt by the government banks to Chinese companies, again effectively > subsidizing the capitalization of these enterprises. > > These factors result in unfair trade at best. The playing field is not > level. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:51:02 -0500 From: "dlejune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Communist Rants Folks: WAKE UP! Whether or not the US supports "global trade," we are moving enexorably towards GLOBAL OLIGARCY. That is to say, we are all, or will soon be, SLAVES TO THE CORPORATION. The sooner the nation states and international corporations cooperate in that endeavor, the sooner we will have NO WAY OUT. Just think about what has happened in the last 30, no, even 20 years... It matters not whether the US, Germany, Japan, or even Korea is the next powerhouse; if things go the way they've been going, we will all end up similar to the "batteries" in The Matrix... Dana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:14:54 -0400 From: "Bill Matthews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? < LARGELY OT RANT> > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stan Jackson Jr. > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 10:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? < LARGELY OT RANT> > > > Actually, as you point out, it IS that simple. Businesses will pursue the > most economical solution. Nobody said that was fair or good for the > environment. But based on the thread, China is clearly the best place to > manufacture. > > Stan > Short sighted businesses pursue goals that ignore the total cost. The low cost bidder is not always the lowest cost supplier, either in the short term or the long term. In my job I often find that the lowest bidder is not the lowest "cost" supplier. And in fact in competitive bid situations I rarely go with the absolute lowest price bid. Longer term cost and benefit analysis is much harder to do or to justify. But I think that for instance, if Dell does not re-think its policy of outsourcing all customer service to India, they may find that any manufacturing advantage they have may disappear. Remember the old Conventional Wisdom that at least the service jobs can't go offshore? Well they can. I was never a fan of Dell but they offered businesses an attractive package and I used them in my last job. IT staffs on every professional list I am on are very unhappy with Dell customer service and looking at alternatives. I'm glad I don't have to deal with them now. Having to deal with a tech in a foreign country who has English as a second language drives up my cost of doing business. I still have alternatives. Globalization is not necessarily a bad thing as long as decisions are made in the light of both short term and long term costs and value. Unfortunately much of US business management and their customers think long term planning is lunch next week. Enough, lets talk cars. Bill Matthews Hockessin DE 00 M Geeze some Volvos other cars ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:23:11 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? Rob Levinson wrote: > >Rob, I am going to have to call you on this. Are you telling us that > >you ONLY make enough money to stay in business and live? > > Not at all. I make enough to employ several other people in a > profession they love, and I pour an inordinate amount of money into > R&D to provide better and often more cost-effective products. My > company is a classic model of a growth-driven company with growth > achieved by muliplying offerings and gaining word-of-mouth exposure. Oh geez Rob, all these expenses are business related. What I meant was that you live comfortably and can afford expensive cars because you make good money from your business. You *could* drop your prices and live a simpler life while still pouring money into R&D to keep your business running. You attempted to indicate that retailers make just enough on their products to stay in business, that being X%. The reality is, they make X+Y% where Y is what makes them rich (or not). You simply cannot state that you cannot afford to give a discount to some people or even to all people and still stay in business. That is what you intimated and what I am calling you on. BTW, you deserve every Y dollar you make for running a great business. > >I have no problem if you or another vender chooses not to offer a CCA > >discount or a quantity discount. However, you are missing the benefit > >of such a discount. By giving a discount to CCA members, you are > >bringing in and retaining better customers. > > Therein lies the problem; while there are indeed many fine people in > the CCA, there are likewise as many whackos and bad apples as one > would find in the population as a whole. My mistake. I muddied the waters a bit. I have no idea if CCA members on average actually are better customers. I was speaking theoretically. That is a decision that you as a retailer and advertiser have to make. If CCA members are not better customers in your mind, then it is pretty clear that a CCA discount would not make sense for your company. > Given that late-model BMW > ownership rules out the demographic fringes of the destitute and > non-functionally insane, would anyone believe that a CCA member is a > "better person" than a BMW owner who simply reads European Car > magazine? It's okay to be elitist if one chooses, but to say that > spending the $30 on a membership makes one a better person is to be > guilty of the snobbery that the unwashed masses accuse BMW owners of > in the first place, just with more fine detail. Is a 5-series owner > better than a 3-series owner, all of whom are inferior to a 7-series > owner? No, of course not. They just have $30,000 more to spend on > the car in addition to the $30 CCA membership fee. As Groucho Marx > (an alternate form of Marxism worth studying) said, "I wouldn't be a > member of any club that would have me." Whoah, whoah, whoah! Nobody said anything about a better person, just a better customer! FYI, CCA membership is a well spent $35 (not $30). And actually, it is 3-Series owners that are the best people ... > You're missing the distinction between advertising and baiting. > That's been my point all along - a discount offered to all is no > discount, it's regular price. Failure to see that, or more > particularly the taking advantage of that blindness, is an insult to > the customer. Having artificially high "regular" prices to support constant "sale" prices does occur among less reputable retailers. But not generally among more reputable retailers such as yourself. From this standpoint, I agree with your distinction. However, a discount to all may have a limited time period when it is valid, making it something other than a regular price. Additionally, a discount to members of a certain organization is not a discount to all. The fact that anybody can become a member does not change that. Someone who is not already a member likely won't know that they can get a discount by becoming a member. Stan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:39:18 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> If foreign enterprises partially or wholly own these Chinese businesses, then the profits are coming back to Americans anyway. Albeit not in quite the same way as in a nationally operated business. You have to keep in mind that the loan write-offs, lax environmental regulations, low wages, etc. are expected to be a short term situation. In time, these businesses will have to compete on a more level playing field. Right now the idea is to stimulate the Chinese economy by giving them an advantageous situation. Japan went from being a poor society like China to a well-to-do society like America. None are perfect, but the standard of living is clearly higher in America or Japan. AND, can you even imagine the market that will exist in China when it reaches even moderate standards of living?? You have to believe -- improving the global economy is best for all countries in the long run. Stan Chris Baker wrote: > > Their inferior financial system seems to work in their favor as per my > previous post. The most successful businesses are in free trade zones with > brand new infrastructure and state-of-the-art facilities. They are also > partially if not wholly owned by foreign enterprises who are going to China > for the low cost labor and other advantages mentioned. The traditional > Chinese owned businesses are not the big threat because they tend to meet > the stereotype - dirt floor, poor working condition, unskilled workforce, > crappy product. The new operations supporting things like the automotive > industry are not like that - couldn't get away with it. > > Chris B. > > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 8:20 PM > Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> > > > Jamie, you seem to think that the Chinese have all the advantages. They > > don't. The US has a superior financial system, better infrastructure, and > > much less bribery/kickbacks/payoffs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:41:59 -0400 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] AAA Pre Purchase Inspection Steer her towards a Honda or Acura or whatever their high market nameplate is. Ed Kevin Kelly wrote: >I know most BMW mechanics do pre-purchase inspections but my >sister is too cheap to pay what they charge. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:27:20 -0500 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] AAA Pre Purchase Inspection http://www.inspectionsolution.com http://www.magoos-inc.com/ Both will travel to the car to inspect it. They will not DRIVE it and I don't think you will get a compression or leak-down test. For what you pay, these are OK. These are the kind of inspections that lease banks use before allowing a used car lease. A good deal if you are buying a car sight unseen. $100-150, I think. PepBoys also does pre-purchase inspections, but YMMV with those and the car has to be driven in. I don't know what it costs and what they will do. As was noted, if she does not want to pay what a BMW mechanic wants to an inspection, she is going to be REAL SAD when she has a problem and has to pay for repairs. Dennis M5 silver/black 330i silver/black/pp/sp/manual/xenon/cd - now for sale! At 06:12 PM 9/12/03 -0700, you wrote: >My sister is looking for a used E36 and she wants me to inspect one that she >likes, but I don't have the time to do it. I remember AAA had some kind of >low cost pre purchase inspection for members years ago. > >Does anyone know if AAA (specifically AAA in the SF Bay Area) will still do >a pre-purchase inspection for members? If so are the inspections worth >anything? I know most BMW mechanics do pre-purchase inspections but my >sister is too cheap to pay what they charge. > >Kevin Kelly >BMW CCA 50039 ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6747 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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