[uucdigest] Monday, September 15 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6756
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options RE: [uuc] wheel spinners RE: [uuc] wheel spinners [uuc] Re: tire patch shape [uuc] <OT> Explaining Women (was Re: tire patch shape) Re: [uuc] wheel spinners (was anybody got a good sub-$9K RE: [uuc] Argh. Brake light on E39 2000 528iT [uuc] Re: Tire Patch Shape -- in the Snow ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:53:10 -0400 From: "Gaudio, Stefano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options I agree with Ben, Pilots are terrible in cold/snow by design. There are new Pilots out there called Pilot Sports A/S (for all seasons) that have a softer compound for better winter traction. Still pretty bad in the snow. Not to mention that they are very expensive ($200+ each in M3 sizes). I have a separate sets of 16" wheels with 205/55 bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 from tirerack and they are amazing in the snow. I got them from tirerack for about $100 each and during a blizzard last winter going to a ski resort I was the only rear wheel drive car in sight on a 3 hours road trip. The combo of the narrow tires and aggressive snow tread (13/32 deep new!!!) make a snow storm a piece of cake. Extremely comfortable BUT... during a sunny less cold day they still remind you that they are snow tires with soft, high sidewalls and little dry traction. Since you seem to encounter snow sporadically I would suggest you stick to 17 inch wheels (way more responsive) and a less aggressive snow tire like an HR rated tire ( 225/45/17 just like Ben suggested). If you don't want to dedicated snow tires at least look for tires with a M+S (mud+snow) rating. P.S. Remember that tires are everything and in the snow your M3 with snow tires will climb as well as a all wheel drive with all seasons BUT IT WILL STOP WAAAAAAAYYYYYY BETTER. Stefano '98 M3 currently with Pilot Sports. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:58:31 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] wheel spinners I'm beginning to like communism. Marco - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed MacVaugh Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] wheel spinners He probably (according to my kids) didn't take physics. He made $2.7 mil from Speedo endorsements. Ed Marco Romani wrote: >ok. I'll bite. How does an Olympic athlete afford an escalade? > >I see he wasn't paying attention in high school physics. Or don't they >teach that in high school anymore? > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:00:22 -0700 From: "J. Ochi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] wheel spinners I get this mental image of John Stossel on 20/20 squatting down and poking hot dogs into the spinning wheels (sharpened, for greater visual effect), while gravely talking about the dangers of this product. Intercut with film clips of Marco's borrowed kid, crying while displaying a tiny bandaged hand... Jim Ochi At 02:34 PM 9/15/2003 -0700, Marco Romani wrote: >ooooooooooooooh! > >anyone have a kids finger they want to sacrifice? I know plenty of product >liability trial lawyers. > >Marco > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of J. Ochi >Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:23 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [uuc] wheel spinners > > >At 02:48 PM 9/15/2003 -0500, Dennis Wynne wrote: > > >The "danger" is that if one of these pulls up at a cross street and you > > > >a) see the wheels spinning when the car is stopped > >b) see the wheels not spinning but the car did not stop > >c) see the wheels spinning backwards > >I'd be much more concerned about a pedestrian (especially a little kid) >sticking their finger in the darn thing. The ones that I've seen use what >looks like a fairly large, heavy piece of machined metal as the spinning >part, spinning it right in front of the stationary wheel spokes. > >Just imagine if you will - Mama unloading the brood of young'uns from the >minivan at the local WalMart. Car with these wheels whips into the >neighboring parking space. Little kid sees shiny spinning thing right at >the perfect play height, toddles over, and reaches out to touch it... > >Jim Ochi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:10:19 +0000 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: tire patch shape Bob Moore wrote: > OK...enough of those easy questions about how tires work... > What we really need to know is...how do women work, Gary?! 8^) Coincidentally, that involves contact patch deflection too :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:18:53 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] <OT> Explaining Women (was Re: tire patch shape) >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:24:06 -0500 >From: Bob Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [uuc] Re: tire patch shape > >OK...enough of those easy questions about how tires work... > >What we really need to know is...how do women work, Gary?! 8^) > >Bob As told by Click and Clack (Tom and Ray Magliozzi) on Car Talk this summer (some liberty taken here on details, since I can't remember all of them): A guy finds an oddly shaped bottle and, while cleaning it up, out pops the obligatory genie. The genie says he will grant the guy one wish. "Now don't grant any wishes yet, I'm just thinking out loud here", the guys says. "I've always wanted to go to Hawaii, but I get seasick on boats, and I have a fear of flying. If I wish to go to Hawaii, I won't be able to get back without flying or taking a ship. So that's not a good wish. But if there were a bridge to Hawaii, I could drive both ways. OK, then that's my wish, I wish for a bridge to Hawaii." The genie thinks for a moment to size up the request. "A bridge would require a tremendous amount of engineering. The supports out in the Pacific would have to be a couple of miles deep just to reach the bottom, and then anchored deep into the ocean floor. The structure would require a few billion tons of steel, and it would take forever to do all the calculations to know how to design it. Plus there would need to be gas stops every couple hundred miles, places to stop to rest or sleep, and all kinds of other things. I'm sorry, that request would be impossible to grant, please choose something else." "OK then", says the guy, "all I want is to be able to truely understand women." The genie pauses for a minute, then asks, "You want two lanes on that bridge or four?" Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:09:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Pao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] wheel spinners (was anybody got a good sub-$9K I think the latest Tirerack ad had some 24 or 26 inch tire from Kumho for $1300 plus a piece. So a set of tires with mounting, shipping, and tax will set you back $6K. Ted - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:47:25 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] wheel spinners (was anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ?) Yep, they're wheels with some spinning gizmo. I haven't been close enough to actually touch one. I've heard that for a set of those in 22" with tires will run upwards of $15K. At least they were last year when they first came out. Marco __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:13:27 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Argh. Brake light on E39 2000 528iT Ah, magic! Your suggestion did exactly the trick, Brett. THANKS (as always). Next question - is the brake fluid reservoir gradated? How does one check the level of the fluid? I took apart the microfilter housing to get to the reservoir today, in order to open it up so that I could retract the pistons in the calipers, but I neglected to take a close look to see what the level of fluid is. I suppose I ought to flush the fluid anyway.... vty, - --Dennis - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KMS - Brett Anderson Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Argh. Brake light on E39 2000 528iT Is the light red or yellow? To clear the buffer, leave the ignition on for 30 seconds. If that doesn't turn the light out, check your brake fluid level, as the light does double duty. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dennis Liu > Ok, as I wrote previously, the brake light lit up on my wife's 2000 528iT. > Ordered a set of brake pads, and just changed the FRONT pads. > Replaced the > front brake sensor wire. Did NOT replace the rear pads, as they > still have more than half thickness. > Brake light remains lit on the dash. Unplugged and replugged the > rear brake sensor wire. Light remains on. > Do I need to "reset" the instrument panel light? Doesn't the > brake warning light trigger when the wire grounds? ____________________________________ 100% Spam Control by SpamEnder Free Download and Trial http://www.spamender.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:46:42 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Tire Patch Shape -- in the Snow Ahh, now that is where the rub began, but someone has intercepted me and gone right to the punch. I just wanted to be clear regarding performance on dry pavement first. In rain, the issue is water evacuation and Gary's answer makes perfect sense to me. In the winter, we have a different story. The old standby has been to go minus one with winter tires because the narrower tire cuts through the snow better. It is true that in regular snow or loose gravel/dirt you build up a wedge in front of the tire. A narrower tire will have a narrower wedge of snow or gravel to cut through. However, the benefit will depend on how deep the snow or gravel is. You'll see little benefit in an inch of fluffy snow or on a harder gravel surface. AND, today's modern snow tires have gotten so good, that you could be gaining little and perhaps sacrificing cornering ability. I don't believe there is enough evidence to indicate the extent of each effect. If you are on ice or hard packed snow, there will be little or no benefit to the narrower tire. Of course, throughout both the pavement discussion and now the snow discussion we are talking about racing. On the street, you may not often reach the limits of tire patch distortion. In the snow, you may never reach those limits at all -- unless you come Ice Racing with us in NH. Again, I've not done any testing, but I believe it is likely that we reach tire patch distortion levels at least some of the time. What does this all mean? Think carefully before buying a narrow snow tire. If it is a Q speed-rated tire (typical for a snow tire), you may find an exacerbated loss in dry pavement capability and little or no benefit in winter driving. A wider snow tire will give you better dry cornering and equivalent winter performance except in deeper snow. At least that is my best current opinion. BTW, I don't go with the idea of the narrower tire cutting through to the solid surface below better. If that were the case, then the wider tire would probably be better. A wider tire would have a more difficult time cutting the snow out of the way, but at any given instant it would have a larger area of freshly exposed "solid surface" (infinitesimal length X the width of the tire). The solid surface would have much better traction, so having a wider exposed area should be significant. Stan P.S. When braking on snow, locked wheels (which utilize the wedge of snow to slow the car) *can* sometimes brake as well or almost as well as ABS brakes in snow or loose gravel. This presumes that the snow does not smear into an icy surface under locked wheels, which is common but does not always occur. On sheer ice, ABS tends to definitely be an impediment to braking. The ABS cycles over and over trying to find traction that it is almost nonexistent -- catching most, but missing some. Locked wheels will catch 100% of every bit of traction they hit. Gary Derian replied: > For rain, a narrower tire has to 1) push water a shorter distance, and 2) > has less water to push. For wide tires, the shortest water drain path is > straight through the middle. For narrow tires, the shortest path is to the > sides. Also, large tread blocks need to have a drain from the middle to the > edge, say a V or U shape. > > For mud and snow, a narrow tire digs down to to the hard stuff. - ---------------------------- Before that Scott asked: > > Interesting topic. Thank you, Gary. > > It's great to learn some of the principles behind what for me was only > > intuitive. > > And while we're on this, why is it that a long narrow footprint provides > > better traction in snow and rain? > > rss ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6756 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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