[uucdigest] Tuesday, September 16 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6757
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options [uuc] '99 540i/6 e39 parts question [uuc] re: On a Journey Re: [uuc] Re: Tire Patch Shape -- in the Snow Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? [uuc] OT re: electrolytic rust removal RE: [uuc] <OT> Explaining Women (was Re: tire patch shape) [uuc] E30 suspension upgrade: from an engine guy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:27:10 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options Softer when very cold, that is. On the other hand, they will tear up easier on the track, although Michelin does an excellent job of applying tougher compounds to the shoulder and softer compounds to the middle. There is a reason Michelin tires are sooo expensive. Gary Derian > There are new Pilots out there called Pilot Sports A/S (for all seasons) > that have a softer compound for better winter traction. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:52:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ian Osborn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] '99 540i/6 e39 parts question Looking for some leads on a wrecked '99 e39 540 6-speed. I need the ABS computer and pump to replace a failed computer in my car. It is located on the right front shock bulge in the engine compartment. (they apparently moved on various iteration of the ABS/DSC system) It needs to be a manual '99 540. Anybody know of anyone parting out an e39 or a good BMW parts dealer? Thanks for any help. Ian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:00:25 -0500 From: "Steve & Barb Conner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] re: On a Journey Sorry for the accidental post yesterday. I must have hit the digest in the address box when I was trying to email my son. Barb Conner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:16:01 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Tire Patch Shape -- in the Snow Stan, I agree mostly. For ice racing with studs, I'd go for the wider tire as you can rip up more ice. For 1 inch of snow or semi packed snow where a tire leaves an imprint of its tread pattern, new all season tires are almost as good as snow tires. Notice the word new. Q rated studless ice tires <cough-blizzak-cough> are scary on dry pavement but are great for driving on an ice rink. A narrow tire that does not need to push snow away is a major benefit in deep snow. For ice and packed snow, wider does fine. For moderate conditions, you don't need the best, all season tires do well. Its only when the weather is extreme that one needs the best. If one needs to get somewhere in the worst of conditions, driving a bit slower in dry conditions is the price to be paid. The narrow tire packs the snow harder underneath it. Snow is one surface that you do not want floatation. H rated snow tires in a reasonably wide size are a good compromise for dry road driving in the winter. For mud, the tire really does need to get down there past the slop to the more firm stuff. Gary Derian > Ahh, now that is where the rub began, but someone has intercepted me and > gone right to the punch. I just wanted to be clear regarding performance on > dry pavement first. > > In rain, the issue is water evacuation and Gary's answer makes perfect sense > to me. > > In the winter, we have a different story. The old standby has been to go > minus one with winter tires because the narrower tire cuts through the snow > better. It is true that in regular snow or loose gravel/dirt you build up a > wedge in front of the tire. A narrower tire will have a narrower wedge of > snow or gravel to cut through. However, the benefit will depend on how deep > the snow or gravel is. You'll see little benefit in an inch of fluffy snow > or on a harder gravel surface. AND, today's modern snow tires have gotten > so good, that you could be gaining little and perhaps sacrificing cornering > ability. I don't believe there is enough evidence to indicate the extent of > each effect. If you are on ice or hard packed snow, there will be little or > no benefit to the narrower tire. > > Of course, throughout both the pavement discussion and now the snow > discussion we are talking about racing. On the street, you may not often > reach the limits of tire patch distortion. In the snow, you may never reach > those limits at all -- unless you come Ice Racing with us in NH. Again, > I've not done any testing, but I believe it is likely that we reach tire > patch distortion levels at least some of the time. > > What does this all mean? Think carefully before buying a narrow snow tire. > If it is a Q speed-rated tire (typical for a snow tire), you may find an > exacerbated loss in dry pavement capability and little or no benefit in > winter driving. A wider snow tire will give you better dry cornering and > equivalent winter performance except in deeper snow. At least that is my > best current opinion. > > BTW, I don't go with the idea of the narrower tire cutting through to the > solid surface below better. If that were the case, then the wider tire > would probably be better. A wider tire would have a more difficult time > cutting the snow out of the way, but at any given instant it would have a > larger area of freshly exposed "solid surface" (infinitesimal length X the > width of the tire). The solid surface would have much better traction, so > having a wider exposed area should be significant. > > Stan > > P.S. When braking on snow, locked wheels (which utilize the wedge of snow > to slow the car) *can* sometimes brake as well or almost as well as ABS > brakes in snow or loose gravel. This presumes that the snow does not smear > into an icy surface under locked wheels, which is common but does not always > occur. On sheer ice, ABS tends to definitely be an impediment to braking. > The ABS cycles over and over trying to find traction that it is almost > nonexistent -- catching most, but missing some. Locked wheels will catch > 100% of every bit of traction they hit. > > > > > Gary Derian replied: > > For rain, a narrower tire has to 1) push water a shorter distance, and 2) > > has less water to push. For wide tires, the shortest water drain path is > > straight through the middle. For narrow tires, the shortest path is to > the > > sides. Also, large tread blocks need to have a drain from the middle to > the > > edge, say a V or U shape. > > > > For mud and snow, a narrow tire digs down to to the hard stuff. > > ---------------------------- > Before that Scott asked: > > > Interesting topic. Thank you, Gary. > > > It's great to learn some of the principles behind what for me was only > > > intuitive. > > > And while we're on this, why is it that a long narrow footprint provides > > > better traction in snow and rain? > > > rss ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:50:52 -0700 From: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? Rob asked: >Anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series >in or close to NJ? Then someone suggested a Jag XJ The Jag XJ is a nice looking car but will cost about twice as much to own and operate than a 6cyl BMW 5 Series or about 50% more to own and operate than a 6 cyl BMW 7 Series. My cost of ownership estimate is based on based on personal observations and reports on this list and the two daily Land Rover lists I'm on (that have a lot of Jag owners). I didn't include depreciation in my cost of ownership estimate and as a whole Jags (and most other British cars) tend to depreciate faster and be harder to sell than BMWs with high miles. Than Gary wrote: >No $9,000 car will impress clients, unless they are idiots. >If they are, he shouldn't want them as clients. Hmm... You might not be impressed when a guy pulls up in clean a high mileage $80,000 750iL or $66,000 Range Rover 4.6HSE (that are both worth $9K today) but 99% of the rest of the world will... Kevin Kelly BMW CCA 50039 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:08:51 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? Yeh, my mom drives a 1986 Caddy, probably worth $50 now and she thinks, "Hey, its a Cadillac". Gary Derian > > Than Gary wrote: > > >No $9,000 car will impress clients, unless they are idiots. > >If they are, he shouldn't want them as clients. Hmm... > > You might not be impressed when a guy pulls up in clean a high mileage > $80,000 750iL or $66,000 Range Rover 4.6HSE (that are both worth $9K today) > but 99% of the rest of the world will... > > Kevin Kelly > BMW CCA 50039 > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:26:47 -0400 From: "David A. Leonard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] OT re: electrolytic rust removal Gil Wrote>>My grandfather died a while ago. Our family is just starting to go through the house to recover any worthwhile belongings. He had a fair amount of hand tools. Most of them have a full compliment of surface rust due to years of neglect. Is there a way to restore these tools to their former states? Will they always be rusty? Any insight would be appreciated. TIA V http://www.intricatearticles.com/personal/rustfaq.html I haven't tried it but I have read that it is effective.. Dave Leonard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:40:29 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] <OT> Explaining Women (was Re: tire patch shape) The bridge will probably have a lower cost of upkeep as well...... ;^) Lee->ducking & running in serpentine fashion > A guy finds an oddly shaped bottle and, while cleaning it up, > out pops the > obligatory genie. The genie says he will grant the guy one wish. > > "Now don't grant any wishes yet, I'm just thinking out loud > here", the guys > says. "I've always wanted to go to Hawaii, but I get seasick > on boats, and > I have a fear of flying. If I wish to go to Hawaii, I won't > be able to get > back without flying or taking a ship. So that's not a good > wish. But if > there were a bridge to Hawaii, I could drive both ways. OK, > then that's my > wish, I wish for a bridge to Hawaii." > > The genie thinks for a moment to size up the request. "A bridge would > require a tremendous amount of engineering. The supports out in the > Pacific would have to be a couple of miles deep just to reach > the bottom, > and then anchored deep into the ocean floor. The structure > would require a > few billion tons of steel, and it would take forever to do all the > calculations to know how to design it. Plus there would need > to be gas > stops every couple hundred miles, places to stop to rest or > sleep, and all > kinds of other things. I'm sorry, that request would be impossible to > grant, please choose something else." > > "OK then", says the guy, "all I want is to be able to truely > understand > women." > > The genie pauses for a minute, then asks, "You want two lanes on that > bridge or four?" > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Sheppard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E30 suspension upgrade: from an engine guy - --0-550382407-1063728654=:4673 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The car: 87 325is with 160k miles. This info will hopefully help some of the less experienced on the list, I am sure many of you have been through the same thing. After getting input from this crew on suspension upgrades I went with the Bilstein Sport Shocks with H&R Sport Springs. The plan was simple, get the parts Thursday morning, install Thursday afternoon, get alignment Friday at lunchtime, then give it a good shakedown at Infineon/Sears Point on Sunday. Great plan�.. UPS delivers late in the day Thursday, have not done anything yet and I am behind. I thought I would get warmed up by doing the back first. Shocks are easy. The springs�.Bentley says take a few more things off than I wanted to. So I only raised the car some (and used jack stands) then got underneath to pull down (compress) the spring down on the trailing arm to get it clear of the part that holds it in place from above. This worked pretty well, but you will want to make sure you have sufficient clearance for your fingers after you compress it, slide the top over a little, then release to wiggle it out. I did on the second one�. Then the fronts�after you disconnect it from steering, suspension, and brakes you can get the strut out. This is where I got stuck (late at night Thursday) The top of the insert shaft and the nut are recessed in the top of the strut. So I got them both off and decided to resume in the morning, surely this would be easy and make sense then�.. Thank you to those that emailed. Thank you to Kurt, Bob, and Rob, who called me when I was getting in panic mode. Thank you to Mark who had me swing over to his house and offered help. A few ways to get this apart. One way is to use small socket and �� drive on the shaft INSIDE a deep socket on the nut. Then turn the nut with the deep socket (if it has flats use a crescent wrench, if it doesn�t add some) while using the �� drive socket to hold the shaft. Very easy in hindsight. Or method #2 is to use an impact wrench. (I need one clearly) Others suggested pipe wrenches etc. So the car went back together late Friday morning in record time (all the while reminding myself not to screw up�..reconnecting steering/suspension/brakes seemed kind of important) and I got the alignment. I also had him spend a few minutes checking my work. I immediately could tell the difference. I don�t think it is too stiff for the road, and the car dropped about 1.25� all around. It feels much better. On to the track. A few observations. (Car now has a chip, better brakes, and now the suspension) This is a good car for the track. Neutral, forgiving, quick. I had the chance to run for a while with some mixed company, caught some people in faster cars, pointed some by. For those of you that know the track, turning in early for 2 and 3A is not good. (Up a hill to approach the turn with apex at the top, 90 degree right handers) I found myself doing this since I couldn�t see the exit, felt I needed to do something. Bad. The other big one is not to brake late into 4. (coming downhill, feels off camber, about or slightly more than 90 degrees) I at least stayed on the track (not by much�.) My car was done when a tire failed (defective? lots of tread but little silver threads sticking out in one section) I also had the chance to drive an Audi S4/V8/AWD on the track. This was nice. I was immediately slowed by traffic who didn�t understand the point by and I was not about lose! my track privelages by going by without a point. I also had the chance to drive an Audi TT/AWD/Turbo and it was a let down. Kind of heavy�. That�s it. Thanks again for the input and help. As I catch up on UUC mail I clearly missed an interesting thread, perhaps in the 10 or so posts I have left to read this topic was banned..... (Sound of Drew throwing grenades) 1. I am slowly learning that cheaper is not the only way to go. I am reaching the point in my life where I will often pay more for a part from a known source/place where I get service. I still experiment with this (yes, I looked online for the cheapest place that sells the exact suspension parts I wanted) However I wonder, is the online retailer going to stay open for an additional 10 mins when you call at 4:55 on Friday and desperately need a part? ("I am sorry sir, you missed our shipping deadline since our warehouse is in Botswana, we can overnight it -for $37 more- on Monday and you will have it Tuesday ny 10am") Online retailers are great for some things (commodities, very specific/obscure, etc). 2. It is true that as a business I can usually get something for a lower piece cost from Asia. Many people have cited why that is. What many of the accountants miss is the additional engineering time ($), travel ($), management hassles ($), etc ($$$) that come with getting that �cheaper� part. Drew - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - --0-550382407-1063728654=:4673 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal>The car: 87 325is with 160k miles.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal>This info will hopefully help some of the less experienced on the list, I am sure many of you have been through the same thing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>After getting input from this crew on suspension upgrades I went with the Bilstein Sport Shocks with H&R Sport Springs.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The plan was simple, get the parts Thursday morning, install Thursday afternoon, get alignment Friday at lunchtime, then give it a good shakedown at Infineon/Sears Point on Sunday. Great plan�..</P> <P class=MsoNormal>UPS delivers late in the day Thursday, have not done anything yet and I am behind.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I thought I would get warmed up by doing the back first.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Shocks are easy.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The springs�.Bentley says take a few more things off than I wanted to.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So I only raised the car some (and used jack stands) then got underneath to pull down (compress) the spring down on the trailing arm to get it clear of the part that holds it in place from above. This worked pretty well, but you will want to make sure you have sufficient clearance for your fingers after you compress it, slide the top over a little, then release to wiggle it out. I did on the second one�.</P> <P class=MsoNormal>Then the fronts�after you disconnect it from steering, suspension, and brakes you can get the strut out. This is where I got stuck (late at night Thursday) The top of the insert shaft and the nut are recessed in the top of the strut.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So I got them both off and decided to resume in the morning, surely this would be easy and make sense then�..</P> <P class=MsoNormal>Thank you to those that emailed. Thank you to Kurt, Bob, and Rob, who called me when I was getting in panic mode.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thank you to Mark who had me swing over to his house and offered help. </P> <P class=MsoNormal>A few ways to get this apart. One way is to use small socket and �� drive on the shaft INSIDE a deep socket on the nut. Then turn the nut with the deep socket (if it has flats use a crescent wrench, if it doesn�t add some) while using the �� drive socket to hold the shaft.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Very easy in hindsight.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Or method #2 is to use an impact wrench. (I need one clearly)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Others suggested pipe wrenches etc.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So the car went back together late Friday morning in record time (all the while reminding myself not to screw up�..reconnecting steering/suspension/brakes seemed kind of important) and I got the alignment. I also had him spend a few minutes checking my work. </P> <P class=MsoNormal>I immediately could tell the difference. I don�t think it is too stiff for the road, and the car dropped about 1.25� all around. It feels much better.</P> <P class=MsoNormal>On to the track.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>A few observations. (Car now has a chip, better brakes, and now the suspension) This is a good car for the track. Neutral, forgiving, quick. I had the chance to run for a while with some mixed company, caught some people in faster cars, pointed some by. For those of you that know the track, turning in early for 2 and 3A is not good. (Up a hill to approach the turn with apex at the top, 90 degree right handers) I found myself doing this since I couldn�t see the exit, felt I needed to do something.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Bad.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The other big one is not to brake late into 4. (coming downhill, feels off camber, about or slightly more than 90 degrees)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I at least stayed on the track (not by much�.)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My car was done when a tire failed (defective? lots! of tread but little silver threads sticking out in one section)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I also had the chance to drive an Audi S4/V8/AWD on the track. This was nice. I was immediately slowed by traffic who didn�t understand the point by and I was not about lose my track privelages by going by without a point.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I also had the chance to drive an Audi TT/AWD/Turbo and it was a let down. Kind of heavy�.</P> <P class=MsoNormal>That�s it. Thanks again for the input and help.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>As I catch up on UUC mail I clearly missed an interesting thread, perhaps in the 10 or so posts I have left to read this topic was banned.....<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(Sound of Drew throwing grenades) </P> <P class=MsoNormal>1. I am slowly learning that cheaper is not the only way to go. I am reaching the point in my life where I will often pay more for a part from a known source/place where I get service.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> I still experiment with this (yes, I looked online for the cheapest place that sells the exact suspension parts I wanted) However I wonder, i</SPAN>s the online retailer going to stay open for an additional 10 mins when you call at 4:55 on Friday and desperately need a part? ("I am sorry sir, you missed our shipping deadline since our warehouse is in Botswana, we can overnight it -for $37 more- on Monday and you will have it Tuesday ny 10am") Online retailers are great for some things (commodities, very specific/obscure, etc). </P> <P class=MsoNormal>2. It is true that as a business I can usually get something for a lower piece cost from Asia. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Many people have cited why that is.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What many of the accountants miss is the additional engineering time ($), travel ($), management hassles ($), etc ($$$) that come with getting that �cheaper� part. </P> <P class=MsoNormal>Drew</P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p><hr SIZE=1> Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=10469/*http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com";>Yahoo! SiteBuilder</a> - Free, easy-to-use web site design software - --0-550382407-1063728654=:4673-- ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6757 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
