[uucdigest] Thursday, September 18 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6764
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] RE: R1100R RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Cam install Re: [uuc] [E36 M3] Cam install RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Cam install [uuc] Kumho MX tire RE: [uuc] Kumho MX tire [uuc] Brakes at the track RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:58:25 -0700 From: "Paolo Ambrogio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: R1100R Plenty of info on the 'big' list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] See also Internet BMW Motorcycle Riders. There is a wealth of info on the oilheads. Chevron Thechron (sp?) in tank cleans the gummed up injectors available at auto parts store. On a non used moto the oil drains away from the shafts and makes shifting more difficult. Paolo Sant'Ambrogio '88 100gs '92 318is (obmwc) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:16:42 -0400 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Cam install I can tell you from practical experience, with the exact combination you're thinking about, that is, Schrick cams into an otherwise stock 3.2 with intake and JC software. The cylinder head lasted less than 1000 miles before the combustion heat, due to lean mixture, split one of the valves. The heat was so high that the spark plug electrodes were burned off. O2 sensor control has limits. It can't correct for anything more than minor deviations. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Pawlowicz > Brett sez > >Do not install the cams without injectors. Do not install the injectors > >without the correct software. > >Doing either will cause engine damage from running lean, or > rich, or both. > > isn't that what the O2 sensor takes care of? checks the exhaust and tweaks > the mixture as req'd? > > and then you also have the knock sensor for the newer motors to > back you up? > > we're looking at doing a 535i AFM + bigger injectors + fuel pressure > regulator + cam swap into an M20 and from various places on the web, it > seems that people just do it and let the ECU adjust itself.. one > guy did all > that, then used a dyno with wideband o2 sensor to check, tweaked the fpr > until all was good.. > > are you saying no dice? ____________________________________ 100% Spam Control by SpamEnder Free Download and Trial http://www.spamender.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:25:24 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] [E36 M3] Cam install And it only is used at part throttle. Gary Derian > > O2 sensor control has limits. It can't correct for anything more than minor > deviations. > > Brett Anderson > KMS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:50:25 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One thing you don't want to happen is to have the pad material wear > down so far that the pistons extends so far resulting in a fluid leak > and then a brake fire. Marco, I don't think that can physically happen! Under the worst of circumstances, the pad will wear to the backing plate and the latter will start scarring the rotor. The backing plate does not have anywhere near the coefficient of friction of the brake pad material, but it will still slow down the car. If you've ever rebuild the calipers, you know that the caliper piston is very long. It can probably push all the way through the backing plate and come in contact with the rotor and still keep the brake system properly sealed. What does frequently happen when you are finishing off old pads, is that caliper outer rubber dust seals extend out more than usual. If it's old and, the seal are likely to either crack or dislodge from the groove on the piston. The only way to set it back in place is to rebuild the calipers. A straight forward, inexpensive, 15 minute/caliper, but somewhat messy exercise. Otherwise I agree entirely with Chris P. If this is your first school, make sure you have at least 50% of the pad material. While you are unlikely to wear it off as you wont be going that fast, you really don't want to worry about your brakes during your first DE. alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:01:49 -0700 From: Steven Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Cam install I'm sure that person got to see his CE light a lot too though you could always pull the bulb. steve At 04:16 PM 9/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I can tell you from practical experience, with the exact combination you're >thinking about, that is, Schrick cams into an otherwise stock 3.2 with >intake and JC software. > >The cylinder head lasted less than 1000 miles before the combustion heat, >due to lean mixture, split one of the valves. The heat was so high that the >spark plug electrodes were burned off. > >O2 sensor control has limits. It can't correct for anything more than minor >deviations. > >Brett Anderson >KMS > > > > -----Original Message----- > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Pawlowicz > > Brett sez > > >Do not install the cams without injectors. Do not install the injectors > > >without the correct software. > > >Doing either will cause engine damage from running lean, or > > rich, or both. > > > > isn't that what the O2 sensor takes care of? checks the exhaust and tweaks > > the mixture as req'd? > > > > and then you also have the knock sensor for the newer motors to > > back you up? > > > > we're looking at doing a 535i AFM + bigger injectors + fuel pressure > > regulator + cam swap into an M20 and from various places on the web, it > > seems that people just do it and let the ECU adjust itself.. one > > guy did all > > that, then used a dyno with wideband o2 sensor to check, tweaked the fpr > > until all was good.. > > > > are you saying no dice? >____________________________________ >100% Spam Control by SpamEnder >Free Download and Trial >http://www.spamender.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:17:25 -0700 From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Kumho MX tire Kumho MX Tire: Seems Jack needs a new pair of sneakers again. Any experiences with the new Kumho MX tire? Is it the value it appears to be? TIA, 'jk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:39:42 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Kumho MX tire I have a friend running these on his Z06. Even did a track event with them. He's been quite pleased with their performance & durability. He indicated that they were superior to the stock goodyears & weren't that far off the goodyear racing tires. Lee > -----Original Message----- > From: jkerouac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:17 PM > To: [uucdigest] > Subject: [uuc] Kumho MX tire > > > Kumho MX Tire: > > Seems Jack needs a new pair of sneakers again. > Any experiences with the new Kumho MX tire? > Is it the value it appears to be? > TIA, > > 'jk > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:39:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Brakes at the track - --0-352236349-1063921159=:15235 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree that you can run the pads down fairly thin as long as you have adequate cooling, but one of the biggest factors in changing pads at the track is the PITA factor. If you have a set of Brembos and only need to remove two pins to slide out the pads, you can change 'em in about 2 minutes per wheel. If you have to take the caliper off, compress the piston, put the pads in and put it all back together, why bother, just put in some new ones before the event and have some fun. My $.02 Big Dog Dave Nichols - --0-352236349-1063921159=:15235 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <DIV>I agree that you can run the pads down fairly thin as long as you have adequate cooling, but one of the biggest factors in changing pads at the track is the PITA factor. If you have a set of Brembos and only need to remove two pins to slide out the pads, you can change 'em in about 2 minutes per wheel. If you have to take the caliper off, compress the piston, put the pads in and put it all back together, why bother, just put in some new ones before the event and have some fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My $.02</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Big Dog</DIV><BR><BR>Dave Nichols - --0-352236349-1063921159=:15235-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:48:12 +1000 From: "Kim Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage You're both almost right....... The most common cause of leaking calipers we see (we do around 100 brake repairs a month) is age related deterioration of the piston seals or rust pitting of the piston itself caused by infrequent fluid changes. However, we do see some that are caused by the pads being so worn down that the piston moves onto an area of the caliper bore that either has a build up of sludge or some rust pitting. This causes small tears in the seals and the fluid leaks out. While not common, it does happen and seems much more likely when the disc rotor is also worn substantially. FWIW Kim Henshaw PS : This is the same problem that often occurs at the master cylinder when bleeding brakes in the traditional "push the pedal to the floor while I open/close the nipple" manner. - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 6:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One thing you don't want to happen is to have the pad material wear > down so far that the pistons extends so far resulting in a fluid leak > and then a brake fire. Marco, I don't think that can physically happen! Under the worst of circumstances, the pad will wear to the backing plate and the latter will start scarring the rotor. The backing plate does not have anywhere near the coefficient of friction of the brake pad material, but it will still slow down the car. If you've ever rebuild the calipers, you know that the caliper piston is very long. It can probably push all the way through the backing plate and come in contact with the rotor and still keep the brake system properly sealed. What does frequently happen when you are finishing off old pads, is that caliper outer rubber dust seals extend out more than usual. If it's old and, the seal are likely to either crack or dislodge from the groove on the piston. The only way to set it back in place is to rebuild the calipers. A straight forward, inexpensive, 15 minute/caliper, but somewhat messy exercise. Otherwise I agree entirely with Chris P. If this is your first school, make sure you have at least 50% of the pad material. While you are unlikely to wear it off as you wont be going that fast, you really don't want to worry about your brakes during your first DE. alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:42:54 -0400 From: Steven Schlossman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage At 2:30 PM -0400 9/18/03, Stan Jackson Jr. wrote: >I'm one of the guys who runs pads down pretty thin. I have hit a backing >plate more than once, and they slow the car quite well! I will attest to that. I once put on a brake pad in backwards so it was metal against metal. I did take care of that before getting on the track. Anyway. . . Interesting subject. I have a half dozen sets of track pads worn 50% or more. I measured all my pads these weekend taking the lowest measurement to stay on the conservative side. The pads I use (CarboTech Panther Plus) are about .43-.45 inches when new. My old pads range from .16 to .28 inches. At the next track event I will be using the best 2 sets of pads. One set Saturday and one Sunday. I may pick a set of pads based on the track and weather conditions. If it's going to be a rainy day or a one day school, I use pads that are more worn down just so I can use them up. Depending on whether the pads have a rivet will dictate how low you can go. My pads are riveted and I can not go lower than .10 inch. I wouldn't attempt it either. As someone said, the pads wear quicker as the get worn down. Pad wear is not linear. I can understand schools requiring 50% or 75% of pad since it will take in account for all types of pads. Of course if you are a very aggressive braker, these still may not be enough. So as you see, the answer depends. First schools I would go with full pads until you can judge for yourself what is enough. - -- ...steven 2003 MCS EB/W 1996 328ti 1990 MX6 +198K Ofest caravan http://www.happytogether.com/unofficialofest ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6764 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
