[uucdigest] Wednesday, October 15 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6817
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] [UUC] E30 vs E36 vs E39? RE: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? RE: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? Re: [uuc] 745Li problems? RE: [uuc] [UUC] E30 vs E36 vs E39? RE: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? Re: [uuc] RE: Sad BMW-related Story (My Take) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:33:07 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [UUC] E30 vs E36 vs E39? > Kirk wrote: > > >Funny, > That's the same thing that happened when a friend of mine > took his car to > Oktoberfest. He was mentioning that he was surprised that he > was able to > almost lap everyone in the field in his 99' 540i 6 speed. He > said that he > had over 15 E36's and even a couple of E46 M3's in his run group. I > thought that the E36 and the E46 were hard to beat on the track? > In a HUGE car like the 540, one would think that the more > agile and quicker > M-cars would be a little more of a challenge. It really all > comes down to > driver ability anyway. My friend just easily outclassed the others. > He tells me that he was consistently hitting 135mph on the > long straight. > __________________ I'd say it's a possibility that there's a track dependency as well. Not to take anything away from your friend--I think we all agree that the driver does make the difference. For example, take Road Atlanta. My "more agile & quicker" little E30 is all over just about anybody in the fun bits of the track, but once the road straightens (there are a couple long straights) out the more powerful cars just run away. This includes Z06's, 911TT's, a GT3, STi, E36M3 (yes, Mike I caught 'im), Viper, etc. If I nail turn 7 I can work up to about 125mph before the braking zone into 10A. A Z06 can completely botch the turn & exit about 20mph slower out of 7 but still get well past 140 before getting on the brakes, usually too early. I had this happen many times there. There were only 2 cars faster than me through the fun parts, a VERY well driven Z06 & a spec Miata. In my defense I was in the advanced group & at the track for the first time. Well, and I suck. :) I can see how a 540i would be able to run a 6-cylinder M3 down. They are no slouch, especially assuming he has the sport package. I remember when Autoweek tested the car when it first came out in '97. The performance numbers were just a hair off the M3's. It would be easy to see if there were some medium to long straights preceeded by some open turns, the 540i might take off from in front of an E36M3 & walk away until the M3 gets into the meat of the powerband. After all, more power is more power. Put the cars on a less wide-open track & things will be reversed. My car had such an advantage in the tight section & through 8 at CMP that I was able to pass the entire run group (except the aforementioned Z06) in a 30 minute session. This included about 6 E36M3's & a ton of Cobras. They just didn't have enough room to really stretch their legs there. BTW, I'd consider an E46M3 to be kind of a huge car. It weighs 3500lbs, which shouldn't be that far off an E39. That doesn't mean I wouldn't take one.... > > Kirk is right on point with this. We often debate the > efficacy of one car > v. another, but often forget that by far the single biggest > variable is the > mope behind the wheel. When magazines do comparison tests I don't know what a mope is, but I'm definitely the dope behind the wheel. :) > and provide test > track results, it's almost always with ONE driver behind the > wheel of all > the cars. > > I'm as guilty as anyone else; when I'm at the track, after a > session, I > often discuss who I passed (or more often, who passed me). > Though I am far, > far from being the fastest or best driver at an event, I have I'm much farther from being the fastest, but I have a car that allows me to drive like a complete bonehead & not kill myself. Hell, I'd like to see what a competent person could do with it. > done my share > of catching, passing and leaving behind. Based solely on my > experiences, I > could argue that a non-sport model Jaguar S-type from Hertz Hertz rents XJ8's. There was one at the Panoz school.....we were getting a good laugh about that. That car blasts down the straights though--not too fast for an E30 to make a pass stick though. > is faster than a > Ferrari 355F1 GTS, a 996tt is slower than a Subaru WRX, or, I thought 996TT's were slower than everything. I guess I'd be pretty clammy in a $130k car too. It's possible that this is the reason many people go slowly enough to be passed by seriously underclassed cars. A lot of people won't be terribly cavalier with a $50k car. > heck, even a > Ferrari 330 GT is slower than a 1991 Chevy S-10 pickup with > mismatched Kelly > whitewall tires and a vinyl bench seat! > > vty, > > --Dennis Lee 88M3->nice to have a car that comes & cleans up after the mess you made ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:42:27 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? Very interesting. Two data points 1) I was bit fearful when I bought my 2002 Chebby Avalanche for 2 reasons. First year of a new model vehicle built in a new factory. Amazingly it has been trouble free. However the 2003 have been plagued with electrical gremlins due to the switch over from the old fashioned discrete harness to a bussed system. 2) In a prior life I was a Bombardier/Navigator in an ancient naval aircraft, the A6E. In the late 80's an improved version was released that used the MIL-STD 1553 buss for the weapons system instead of the original wiring harness. If memory serves over 500lbs were saved due to a huge reduction in wiring. That was a big deal since that weight could be carried as weapons or fuel. The buss wiring technology has been around for a long time (relatively), I'm amazed at the problems the automakers seem to be having. Marco - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Dadgar Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 09:48 AM, Bill Matthews wrote: > 4-5 years ago when I went to a factory rep tech session for the Volvo > S60 > when it was first introduced the rep talked about the high speed > (engine and > safety) network and the low speed (all the other stuff) network and how > they were all connected with routers etc and how much money they saved > in > wiring the car by doing it that way. But you couldn't add a radio > without > hooking it up to the mothership via the satellite uplink to reprogram > the > car to see it. That's a multi-plexed electrical system. Instead of running a discrete set of wires to everything that needs them (ie power, control, etc), you run the wires to a local controller that talks on a communications bus and routes signals along. It really simplifies the car's wiring harness and can allow for some cool things (ie tail light bulb burns out so the computer lights up the turn signal on that side under braking instead). The first mass-production (and I use the term loosely) usage on a passenger car was the Cadillac Allante. It's becoming increasingly common now, to the point that the 2003+ GMC trucks have such a system. - - Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:42:42 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? Here is what my Mercedes displayed on the center lcd once: "Brake light failure detected, switching to alternate lights" I kid you not. It turned out it was the brake switch on the pedal. It looks like as the cars are becoming more complex, the manufacturers are integrating more and more high availability features into them. > I am quite interested in watching this all shake out as the years go >by. We know what has happened with the 750s and the 850s too for that >matter. They're cheap, and any owner lives in abject fear of those >fancy conveniences breaking and costing a bunch to fix. But what is >it that usually goes wrong? Mundane things like door locks don't work >right? Wipers, seat motors? > Seems to me like the increasing levels of integration & >interdependence of on-board systems are going to lead to a higher >frequency of problems that stop a car from moving at all. Until the >systems get smart enough to diagnose themselves correctly (and cheap >enough to sell), I'd guess that we'll have a lot of good looking parts >cars somewhere down the road. Either that, or a booming business of >hackers converting broken 7 series cars with aftermarket engine >controls, roll-down windows, and bicycle speedometers. :) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:54:10 -0400 From: "Bill Matthews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] 745Li problems? "Neil Deshpande" > This fault rate is going down all the time, of > courses, as people get used to better quality, but > ceteris parabus. Neil goes from talking about the 745i and computers to talking about a pair of lemon buses or something. Wait a minute you meant ceteris paribus. Never mind. Bill Matthews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:11:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [UUC] E30 vs E36 vs E39? On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Dennis Liu wrote: > We often debate the efficacy of one car v. another, but often forget > that by far the single biggest variable is the mope behind the wheel. I have a simple test to determine if my car is the limiting factor in my driving: could Michael Schumacher drive my car faster? If yes, then it's not the limiting factor. If no, then upgrade car. If he's not available, then I'll settle for one of the local instructors :-). - --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:05:13 -0500 From: "Alex Cagann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: 745Li problems? I don't like where automotive technology is going at all. I am fond of working on cars from time to time....tinkering with them...especially german cars from the 80's. This will be a thing of the past. You can't tinker on a car with 71 computers in it ;-) . I am a car dealer, so I see many cars come and go. These newer cars are ridiculous. If I could damn someone to hell, it would be the man who thought up the check engine light. What a ridiculous thing. They cause me so many problems, when there is no problem there. I sell some VW's as well...let me tell you, they MESSED UP with their engine management stuff. The newer Jettas introduced in 1999 are SERIOUSLY problematic...check engine lights, codes out the rear. The features of new cars are nice...but I'll stick with my 80's german car thank you very much. Alex Cagann http://www.autoconsortium.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:15:35 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] RE: Sad BMW-related Story (My Take) Funny how its all relative to what you are used to. My first 95 M3 was actually quite slow to me vs the cars I had grown up with. Now it handled and braked better than all of them, but on the street, speed is more noticeable than the other. I had the chance to drive a Lingfelter? ZR1 that had a very expensive motor in it. I was driving down an on ramp and was going to go up thru the gears to say 130 or so. I glanced down to see about 175-180mph arrive very quickly. This car was so quick, that it made the guy's dodge viper GTS feel very tame compared to it. Drive the GTS a couple of times too, that car was fast, but you knew it, no deceptions of speed. Lucky for me though, no stories of gate crashing, concrete steps etc. lol. I think with the topic, exposure and experience to high speed cars develops a much greater respect for the abilities of the car. Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Cagann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:18 PM Subject: RE: [uuc] RE: Sad BMW-related Story (My Take) > An interesting point you made about how people don't realize how fast an M > car can really be. Case in point...I was 24 years old. My dad had purchased > a new E36 M3 in 95. I was home from college and had a friend visit. My dad > thought it would be nice to let me take the M3 out that night. A mistake. I > had never driven anything with that performance yet...and I was not up to > controlling the car after I was showing off the 0-60 rush. The car hit 90mph > before I knew it and a turn was coming up...ran into the front yard of a > house, through a iron gate, and ran it up onto a concrete step. The shocks > went through the hood. Nasty accident...and I learned the hard way. > Thankfully nobody was hurt. I don't forget that whenever I get in to a fast > car. > > Alex Cagann > http://www.autoconsortium.com > > > > In the end, the driver let testosterone get the better of him, > > unfortunately > > with very tragic results. I'm 29 & it still gets the better of me > > sometimes, well maybe more than sometimes.....Ok, ok, alot. I don't think > > anyone here can profess to never have been a hot-head; especially had they > > had the chance to drive a sports car like that at 20. And the fact of the > > matter is that driver training the US generally sucks. > > > > > > > > John Weese > > > BMW CCA #76646 > > Lee > > > > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6817 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
