Yes, I am thinking about current phones and current battery technology.
They could improve, and when they do, it may be worth a look. This is like
the CUDA development. When the first attempt was made, it was determined
to be worthless at the time as it took longer to get the information back
from the card than the difference between the processing speeds, and there
was no common programming language - each card had its own.
About 2 years later, the cards had improved, and the programming interface
had improved (down to two from dozens), and writing the code was commenced.
Cell phones are still in the first stage. They are too slow, cannot run at
full power for long enough without damaging the battery, cannot run at full
power unless on a charger for long at all (and even then, this will damage
the battery on some devices), have a variety of different programming
languages required for the science code (java is great for some things, and
not for others - just like any computer language), are short on memory and
long term storage (although this one is improving rapidly), have expensive
data plans, have slow internet connections (at least in the US, this is
different in some other countries).
jm7
"Lynn W. Taylor"
<[email protected]>
Sent by: To
<boinc_dev-bounce [email protected]
[email protected] cc
u> [email protected]
Subject
Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC for Mobile
10/29/2009 11:50 Phones - please test on your
AM Java phone
You're thinking about current phones. If phones continue to evolve,
there may come a time when they're really useful for a lot of different
projects.
Just saying....
[email protected] wrote:
> Now compare sin, cos, exponentiation, and log to the equivalents on a
> desktop. Now do it at low power.
>
> jm7
>
>
>
> Petr Hájek
> <hajek.p...@gmail
> .com>
To
> Sent by: [email protected]
> <boinc_dev-bounce
cc
> [email protected]
> u>
Subject
> Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC for Mobile
> Phones - please test on your Java
> 10/28/2009 02:44 phone
> PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I told 1.000.000 for each!
>
> "You guys I tested how long takes +,-,*, / of 1.000.000 INT and 1.000.000
> of
> DOUBLES"
>
> I.e. 2 x 4 x 1 mil = 8 mils totally
>
> 2009/10/28, [email protected] <[email protected]>:
>> I have no idea of how many operations are included in each of those
>> reports. 113 milliseconds for an integer operation would be completely
>> unacceptable as this is only 9 integer operations per second. I expect
>> that this is the time to run some number of integer operations. I have
> no
>> idea if the count of floating operations for the test is the same as
that
>> for the integer test.
>>
>>
>> jm7
>>
>>
>>
>> Petr Hájek
>> <hajek.p...@gmail
>> .com>
> To
>> [email protected],
>> 10/28/2009 12:41 "[email protected]"
>> PM <[email protected]>
>>
> cc
>>
>>
> Subject
>> Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC for Mobile
>> Phones - please test on your Java
>>
>> phone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You guys I tested how long takes +,-,*, / of 1.000.000 INT and 1.000.000
> of
>> DOUBLES on JME with this program - test on your phone too *please* !
>>
>> http://java.wmhelp.cz/Downloads/SpeedTester.zip
>>
>> My times for Nokia e60 (200+ MHz) are:
>>
>> INTs: 113, 158, 162, 416 ms
>> DOUBLEs: 969, 1012, 823, 876 ms
>>
>> As we can ALL see, working with DOUBLEs is NOT 100x - 1000x times slower
>> damn!
>>
>> 2009/10/28, Lynn W. Taylor <[email protected]>:
>> Significant computing power is increasingly becoming a throw-away
>> commodity.
>>
>> ... and with video being pushed to phones, I'd expect next year's
> phones
>> to have significant CPU power.
>>
>> I don't think time matters, except that in order for a phone to
> complete
>> a (2 or 3 year??) CPDN work unit, it has to survive 2 to 3 years.
>>
>> -- Lynn
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> Only a very few projects will be able to create smaller tasks.
>>
>> CPDN tasks cannot be reduced without shovelling about 1GB of data
from
>> the
>> device back to the server.
>> s...@h tasks are already reduced to the minimum.
>> ...
>>
>> With no FPU, the increase in time is on the order of times 1000.
> Which
>> would mean that the crunch times would have to be reduced by 1000, or
>> the
>> deadline would have to be increased by a factor of 1000. s...@h for
>> example
>> would have to increase the deadlines from one month to 100 years. Or
>> the
>> data span would have to be reduced from 115 seconds of data to 0.1
>> seconds
>> of data (the overlap is currently 15 seconds of data).
>>
>> Integer only projects such as (possibly) prime grid do not suffer
from
>> this
>> problem.
>>
>> Non-CPU intensive projects also do not suffer from the problem.
>>
>> You should look to those types of projects for possibilities.
>>
>> jm7
>>
>>
>> Petr Hájek
>> <hajek.p...@gmail
>> .com> To
>> Sent by: [email protected]
>> <boinc_dev-bounce cc
>> [email protected]
>> u> Subject
>> Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC for Mobile
>> Phones - please test on your Java 10/28/2009 09:57
>> phone AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, for the 3rd time:
>>
>> "2. There will be absolutely need for different and smaller units so
> it
>> may
>> be counted in few hours / days on typical phone / PDA"
>>
>> 2009/10/28, [email protected] <[email protected]>:
>> CPDN has long deadlines because it has correspondingly long crunch
>> times.
>> An 800 MHz computer with an FPU (and CPDN uses the FPU) takes well
> in
>> excess of 9 months to crunch the data running 24/7. A 600 MHz
> device
>> with
>> no FPU will not finish within the lifetime of the phone - even
> running
>> 24/7.
>>
>> Will this always be true? I cannot be certain - ever is an awfully
>> long
>> time.
>>
>> Deadlines vaguely track crunch times on most projects. Long
> deadlines
>> usually have correspondingly long
>>
>> jm7
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Petr Hájek
>> <hajek.p...@gmail
>>
>> .com>
>> To
>> Sent by: [email protected]
>> <boinc_dev-bounce
>> cc
>> [email protected]
>> u>
>> Subject
>> Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC for
> Mobile
>> Phones - please test on your
>> Java
>>
>> 10/28/2009 09:48 phone
>> AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Some projects has LONG deadlines - Climate for example.
>> 2. There will be absolutely need for different and smaller units so
> it
>> may
>> be counted in few hours / days.
>>
>> 2009/10/28, [email protected] <[email protected]>:
>> When you are not using the keypad and the phone is not active, the
>> processor is probably running at about 6 MHz. With no FPU.
>>
>> jm7
>>
>>
>>
>> "Lynn W. Taylor"
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent by:
>> To
>> <boinc_dev-bounce Carl Christensen
>> [email protected] <[email protected]>
>> u>
>> cc
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> Subject
>> 10/27/2009 02:54 Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC for
>> Mobile
>> PM Phones - please test on your
>> Java
>> phone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I keep thinking that there are a lot of cell phones out there, and
> a
>> lot
>> of untapped potential.
>>
>> The one in my pocket (Palm Pre) is running some variant of the ARM
>> processor at something like 600 MHz, which is a nontrivial amount
> of
>> CPU.
>> Palm goofed on the battery (I can go two days, tops), but the rest
> of
>> the phone, including WebOS, is pretty cool.
>>
>> Cell phones as a group are probably second only to smart cards in
> the
>> total number of available clock cycles.
>>
>> -- Lynn
>>
>> Carl Christensen wrote:
>> I don't quite understand the bashing of this guy's mobile
> project;
>> there
>> was that "boincoid" a year or two ago which was in vogue, and IMHO
>> the
>> same
>> ones bashing the "usefulness" of mobiles are the ones crowing
about
>> how
>> great GPU's & CUDA & Sony Playstations etc are (completely
ignoring
>> the
>> fact that 99.99999% of real-world science apps won't run on it).
> Not
>> to
>> mention that there's all sorts of dubious-benefit computer
sciencey
>> stuff
>> out there trying to turn boinc into some god-awful grid mess. so
> I'm
>> willing to keep an open mind about it (and GPU's & grids ;-).
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> S Pozdravem
>> Petr Hájek
>> _______________________________________________
>> boinc_dev mailing list
>> [email protected]
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> S Pozdravem
>> Petr Hájek
>> _______________________________________________
>> boinc_dev mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_dev
>> To unsubscribe, visit the above URL and
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> S Pozdravem
>> Petr Hájek
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> S Pozdravem
> Petr Hájek
> _______________________________________________
> boinc_dev mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_dev
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