Well, there is probably not much to be gained from going to Mars in the
physics department, true. But there are two very clear advantages. First,
hopefully it will tell us more about the development of the solar system.
Second, I am betting that we will find fossil life. Possibly even really
live life.
And really going out on a limb, I am one of those CRAZY people who thinks
that this is probably not the first advanced civilization that has lived on
the Earth. Think about it. Modern Homo Sapiens have been around for at
least 100,000 years. (Probably much longer, what with the relatively recent
find in central Australia. A modern Homo Sapien skeleton, dated at 100,000
years) Civilization as WE know it has only been around for what? About
6000 to 8000 years? During the last ice age there were huge sections of the
world that were above sea level, that are now submerged. Most of these
places have not been investigated. And the anomolies that do exist are
explained away by the archeological community, or ignored. There may have
been civilizations on this planet that reached our level of development.
What if we have already been there? I know. You think I'm crazy. "The
face on Mars?" you ask. "That's crazy talk." Maybe. Maybe not.
Sorry. Just my 2 cents.
Peter Horton
DJ DDX KXUA 88.3
www.kxua883.com every Friday night from 10 to Midnight central
members.tripod.com/djddx/djddx
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: The Space Station
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter Horton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Dan M. wrote
> >>I think that going to the moon and mars is an exciting idea, and >>has
> >>great emotional value. But, from a scientific standpoint, I >>cannot
see
> >>much benefit in manned missions.
> >
> >
> >Also, if you have not gone there and seen what there is to see, how >do
you
> >KNOW that there is no good scientific knowledge we can gain >from space
> >exploration and colonization? Are you psychic? Gifted by the gods?
>
> No, I'm a trained scientist. I guess it might be an appropriate place to
> discuss open mindedness and science. In sci.physics, this has come up many
> times when the physicists are accused by the "alternate thinkers" of not
> being open minded. They suggest this experimental test or that
experimental
> test of relativity, or refutation of QM or something else. They took the
> lack of interest in mounting a massive study of their idea as an example
of
> "close mindedness" and neo-orthadoxy in the scientific community.
>
> The answer of Matt Meron and Jim Carr (and me to some extent) to those
> claims is worth considering. Scientists cannot be universally open
minded.
> The numbers of potential experiments is close to infinite. One cannot do
> them all. One has to make estimates of benefits of various experimental
> proposals. One has to be reluctant to spend time testing every assumption
> one makes in every experiment. If one doesn't do that, one gets caught up
in
> an infinite don't loop.
>
> As our Zimmy has mentioned in another post, I was discussing manned space
> exploration, not space exploration in general. Astrophysics has a great
> potential for adding out our scientific knowledge. I think that some of
the
> best chances to find something fundamentally new and exciting are in the
> area of astrophysics.
>
> (BTW, IMHO it is likely that we will find more exciting advances in the
> science of biology than in the sciences of physics and astrophysics in the
> coming 50 years....but I think this are complex and not fundamental
> sciences.)
>
> High energy physics, on the other hand, seems to have reached the desert.
> The promise of deep structure that seemed to be in the Zeus experiments at
> DESY seems to not have been fulfilled when better statistics came in,
alas.
>
> Anyways, back to the main point. Given X amount for scientific research,
> sending manned missions does not seem to be a good way to get bang for the
> buck. The cost of manned missions is prohibitively high. It is very
> unlikely that we will see something about the fundamental laws of physics
on
> Mars that we do not see on earth. Planetary science is worthwhile, and
> should be done, but there is no significant evidence that a manned mission
> would offer a significant enough advantage to outweigh the disadvantages.
>
> So, in the real world of finite resources, one must make cost benefit
> analysis for any proposed experiments. We know that we can send out scores
> of unmanned missions for the cost of a single manned mission. We know that
> the manned space program over the past 40 or so years has not contributed
> significantly to our scientific understanding. Thus, I argue that
>
>
> >
> >It's like saying, "there's nothing to be gained from going there, >even
> >though I've never been there." You don't know that. You >haven't been
> >there.
>
>
> No, its like saying that the cost benefit analysis says that there are
many
> other places that are higher on the priority list than there. Why don't
we
> set up the funding to send a manned mission to the mantle? We've never
been
> there, we don't know that there is nothing to be gained. But, we have a
> very strong suspicion that the cost benefit ratio of such a mission is
just
> not worth it.
>
> By the way, I don't mean to insist that, because I am a trained scientist,
> that my opinions must be taken as holy writ. I don't want to cut off the
> discussion on this topic simply because I've posted my opinion. My answer
to
> your questions for the source of my understanding is perfectly accurate.
I
> used my training as a physicist to analyze the value of spending
scientific
> research money on manned space travel instead of on other experiments.
> However, I'm more than happy to read different analysis and to respond to
> them. I'd also be interested in a thread of the value of open mindedness
> and the need for having barriers to accepting new claims within science.
>
> Dan M.
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