At 06:44 PM 5/23/01 +1200 K.Feete wrote:
>Dear sweet God. "The evil, genocidal, empires of the Axis"? "The entire
>World threatened?" "dark shadows of communism?" You sound like you're
>selling me a computer game. And not a particularly good one.
Not surprising, given that everything I have to say directly conflicts with
your usually misanthropic view of American life in general. I'm sure it
must really eat you up inside to think that America has actually
accomplished *anything* that actually benefited humanity.
It amazes me that you can be so completely ignorant about so many thing,
and yet so confident about the peculiarities of your particular worldview.
I'd like to think that someplace in your education you may have learned
about some things like what life was like in an occupied country during
World War II. What life was like for a Gypsy, a Manchurian, a resident
of the Warsaw ghetto, a young Korean woman, or a European Jew. I'd like to
think that you know something about what happened to the Ukrainians under
Stalin, or the Chinese during Mao's Cultural Revolution, or the Cambodians
under Pol Pot, or the dissidents of the Prague Spring. Maybe I shouldn't
be surprised that you don't much of what it's like to be a Tibetan or an
Uighur in China today (it seems that not many do), or what life must have
been like in Easter Europe to drive someone to the insanity of trying to
cross the Berlin Wall.
>I don't know enough history to argue you this one, although I have the
>vague memory that we didn't do a hell of a lot in WWI and WWII was just a
>mess. We certainly didn't singlehandedly save the bloody world.
Most historians I have read give America credit for speeding the turning of
the tide in the Great War, and finally bringing the slugfest to a merciful
end. As for WWII, there is absolutely no doubt that if America stays
neutral, the Axis wins the war. From the beginning, our Atlantic program
kept Britain stocked with vital supplies to survive and win the Battle of
Britain. It was then American forces that lprovided the decisive margin
of victory on the beaches of Normandy, and Americans that won the War in
the Pacific. Not to say that we did not have help - but definitely to say
that without us, the result would have been much, much different.
>And even if you're completely, utterly, irrifutably historically correct
>on this one:
>
>We can kill people really well. Woo Hoo.
Yeah, Woo Hoo. Talk to someone who knows what it was like to live in
Paris 60 years ago. Talk to someone who's family was liberated by
Americans from a Nazi Death Camp. Talk to someone who survived the
Philippines or the Solomon Islands 60 years ago.
Go ahead mock *them* for the appreciation that *they* have for our American
forces.
What is really most frustrating about your ignorance of history, however,
is your ignorance of the tremendous ethical advances America has
contributed to human civilization. After World War II, America made
history by choosing *not* to punish the greatest enemies we had ever faced.
In all of human history, when great enemies were defeated, the victors
either salted the earth or turned the defeated into vassals. The United
States, however, instead turned its defeated enemies, Germany and Japan,
into vibrant, independent, and thriving nations of their own.
Seeking greater integration and cooperation among nations as a means
towards peace, the United States took the lead in forming the European
Economic Community, to bind Germany and France together, so that another
great war would never divide them. We launched the North Atlantic Treaty,
so that freedom-loving nations of Europe might stand together against the
forces of totalitarianism. Moreover, seeking to eliminate the scourage of
war from the entire world, we formed the United Nations, the single most
important institution of peace in the world today.
The ethical advances of the United States continue even to this day.
Three years ago, America announced the "Clinton Doctrine." For the first
time, we declared that free nations have a right to intervene in the
territories of other sovereign nations, in order to protect minorities from
grave abuses of human rights - even when those same free nations cannot
intervene on behalf of all oppressed minorities. This doctrine, for the
first time in history, gave *real* human rights protection to at least a
few minorities, no matter what regime they might live under. It marks a
major step on the road to a world government that will protect all human
beings. (even if a long road remains ahead of us.)
> > We continue to remain a
>>leader in the arts, including music, theatre, and motion picture. Our
>>athletes easily rank among the best trained and most highly skilled in the
>>world. We are also the world's leader in research in a great many fields
>>from economics to medicine.
>
>This isn't fact: this is opinion. We probably win music (although England
>might- they've still got *tons* of credit left over from Clapton and the
>Beatles), we are basically the only people who make movies so we get that
>one too, but we certainly don't get theatre, John. What America are you
>living in, anyway? I've seen more good theatre in three months here than
>I did in 19 years in America.
All of that is your opinion. I am basing my analysis on what music,
theatre, and movies the *all* people of the world most want to see and
hear. I'm fairly confident that we are probably #1, but it is certainly
indisputable that we are a leader - which was my point. (P.S. Most
countries, are, in fact producing movies. Did you know Mexico has a movie
industry? - Its based in Guadalajara. The simple fact, however, is that
the people of the world demand our movies.)
>Believe it or not, I'm also pretty proud of America. I think we're an
>innovative people; I think we're tough; and I think we're perfectionists,
>always pushing to go just a little further and be a little better.
Wow, a Brin-L first, Kat says something nice about America!!! ;-) But
if you are proud of America, how can you also think that there is "not much
reason" for being arrogant?"
>Is our arrogance justified? No. We've got a mistake for every single
>triumph, and it's time we recognized it.
That's changing the debate. I'm not arguing whether we *should* be
arrogant, or whether it is *just* that we are arrogant. I'm just arguing
that there are *reasons* for being arrogant.
>And, besides, believing you're
>the center of the universe is so... immature.
But, being at the center of the universe doesn't mean that the rest of the
universe doesn't exist...... BUt that's another argument.......
JDG
__________________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ICQ #3527685
"The point of living in a Republic after all, is that we do not live by
majority rule. We live by laws and a variety of institutions designed
to check each other." -Andrew Sullivan 01/29/01
