----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: Pride and Arrogance Re: American Attitudes (wasRe:Hardworking?)
> >
> > Well, there are American tourists who are just like that. But no one is
> > defending them.
>
> Exactly. That is what people regard as the stereotypical American tourist.
>
> Of course, I know that not all Americans, probably not even a majority are
> like that.
>
> >
> > 1) Americans are uniquely and prevalently loud and rude. A polite
American
> > tourist is the exception that proves the rule. Tourists from
> > other countries
> > are not nearly so bad as American tourists.
> >
> > 2) Tourists are often ruder than they are at home. Tourists from any
> > country can be rude. Rude American tourists stand out, but there are
also
> > plenty of Americans who try to be polite while traveling.
> > Americans are, on
> > the average, as rude or polite as tourists from other countries.
> >
> > I'm not saying you are advocating 2, Charlie. I think you are
> > interjecting
> > a viewpoint in the debate that is not inconsistent with my
> > understanding of
> > point 1. But, I do see that as the debate.
>
> No disrespect, but there's a lot easier ways to say that, Dan. Put in much
> simpler terms, you're saying that I said something close to point 1.
>
Charlie, I posted too fast, and I'm really sorry. I got 1 and 2 mixed up.
> I have said "point 2" almost verbatim elsewhere.
Right, that's what I was trying to say. I mixed my two points up. I thought
about it in church and worried that I had mixed it up. I'm sorry that I
offended you with my slip up.
>What you think I think is wrong. I know you think I hate America and all it
stands for, at least
> that's the impression I've got. Well, I don't, or at least I wouldn't give
> that impression if some of you didn't take yourselves so seriously...
>
Actually, my impression was that you do not believe this. I am really really
sorry I got a moment of dyslexia and got things backwards.
> However, I do think that, getting back to where we started, Americans
abroad
> tend to be arrogant. I mainly have experience of students (lived next to
or
> near Pepperdine University's London halls for 4 years...) and elderly
> tourists, but it's there. Hearing the same conversations from the American
> students in our college bar, always within a week of their arrival (twice
> yearly...) "London's so boring, we've seen everything..." OK...
Well, I think London is boring after the first three days, as is New York I
like the English and Scottish countryside very much and enjoyed staying
wifth friends there.
>
> In our own conversations offlist, you yourself once expressed contempt of
> the quality of a Mexican meal I was about to go out for. You said that it
is
> impossible to get a decent Mexican meal outside of America (presumably you
> include Mexico in that definition of America...). That is sheer arrogance,
> whichever way you slice it. It's that attitude people take umbrage with.
> Everything in the US is the best.
Ah, I also think that its virtually impossible to get good Mexican food in
New England. Ah, its not that Mexico is part of the US, its that Texas is
very Mexican. I have friends who ate at the best Mexican restaurant in
London and they said it was the same quality as the #1 Mexican restaurant in
Conneticuit.
Charlie, Texas is one third Hispanic. London is probably less than 1%.
Where would you expect to find authentic first rate Mexican food?Actually,
there is a unique Texas cuisine: Tex-Mex that I was thinking about.
If you were to say that you could not find a good currie in the States like
the little shops you know in London, I'd believe it in a minute. If you
would say our beer is inferior, I'd agree. I like English beer a whole lot
better, and just about every curry I've had in GB were as good as or better
than the best in the US.
>
> I, however, while I'm *fiercely* patriotic, I'm quite happy to admit that,
> other than the beer and low-volume sportscars, England isn't great. The
rest
> of Britain can be pretty ropey too. If you said to me you were going to
have
> roast beef and yorkshire puddings for sunday lunch, I wouldn't *dream* of
> saying "Ha! You won't get a decent yorkshire in the states..."
>
Well, if you did, I'd believe you.
> Cliches and stereotypes exist for a reason...
Are you willing to stand by that last statement?
