----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 12:37 AM
Subject: RE: Pride and Arrogance Re: American Attitudes (wasRe:Hardworking?)
>
> > > When you have guests in your house, wouldn't you expect them to live
by
> > > your rules while they are there?
> > >
> >
> > In the sense of this discussion, the answer would be a definite
> > no. If you
> > come and visit, I would not expect you to behave like a member of
> > my family
> > or to follow the rules of behavior that are unique to this house. In
> > America, that's considered rude. I would expect you to make some
> > accommodations, just as I expect us to make some accommodations for you.
> > For example, when we know we have vegetarians visiting, we don't
> > expect them
> > to eat meat, we prepare enough veggie food for them to be
> > comfortable eating
> > here. We consider that hospitality.
>
> What about a smoker if you don't smoke?
We'd ask them to smoke on the porch. We wouldn't expect them to know
automatically.
>What if you take your shoes off when you enter the house?
Well, if it isn't muddy, we'd just let it go.
>What if you say Grace before meals?
We'd not expect them to say it with us if they weren't religious. If they
were non-Christian, we'd say a prayer that is not specifically Christian.
>
> If I turned up, tramped in wearing my shoes, put my feet on the coffee
table
> as I do in my house, lit up a big cigar, and chowed down at dinner without
> politely waiting for you to finish saying Grace, how rude would I be?
>
Well, there are American tourists who are just like that. But no one is
defending them. What I read was something quite different. I'll give one
example. I was tired after working and traveling and needed to eat before
going to bed. I was in a Dutch hotel near the Shipol (sp) airport. My
friend and I stood and waited at a restaurant for 10 minutes before we spoke
up, asking to be waited on. We were shot looks as though we were typical
rude American tourists.
We wouldn't have said anything if they were busy. They were not. They were
charging us a good deal of money for our room, had rather high prices on the
menu with a captive audience of tired business travelers, and considered us
rude for wanting service. I think that there is a bit of a cultural
difference here regarding accepting that from restaurants, and I'll get into
that difference in another post.
Visiting someone's house requires compromises on both sides. I've visited an
aunt and uncle before where my family stated we'd never visit again because
of all of the house rules imposed by my aunt. My uncle was hurt that we
wouldn't visit, but there was no way we'd go with all of her rules. They
were always welcome at our house, though.
> That's what was meant.
>
I didn't read it that way. Looking back at the posts that went back and
forth, the debate seems to be between two viewpoints. They are, as far as I
can tell,
1) Americans are uniquely and prevalently loud and rude. A polite American
tourist is the exception that proves the rule. Tourists from other countries
are not nearly so bad as American tourists.
2) Tourists are often ruder than they are at home. Tourists from any
country can be rude. Rude American tourists stand out, but there are also
plenty of Americans who try to be polite while traveling. Americans are, on
the average, as rude or polite as tourists from other countries.
I'm not saying you are advocating 2, Charlie. I think you are interjecting
a viewpoint in the debate that is not inconsistent with my understanding of
point 1. But, I do see that as the debate.
Dan M.
