--- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Dean Forster wrote:
> >
> > You're going to have to move to an alternate
> universe.
> > There is no such thing as absolute safety, and
> > striving for it is ludicrous.
>
> Wow, wher'd ya get the idea that I was striving for
> absolute safety? I think
> allowing concealed carry is ludicrous though. Think
> about some of the morons
> that we license to drive and what it might be like
> if they all were licensed
> to carry.
I ride a motorcycle, I daresay I know more than most
exactly how unskilled drivers are these days. But
what you're saying to me sounds like you can't trust
your fellow man, he must be restrained *before* he can
do anything bad. Keep in mind we're talking about our
fellow citizens, they are not criminals by any stretch
of the imaginagion. How can you ever think anyone
will aspire to trustworthiness if they are never given
the chance to prove themselves? I haven't raised a
child, but i'm thinking that should be a basic axiom.
That's what I mean about feeling unsafe
> because I don't have (or
> want to have) a gun.
>
> > going to have to give up a lot, until eventually
> > you'll have to start giving up things that you
> care
> > about. I care about personal freedom, so i'm
> drawing
> > the line at personal firearm ownership. If you
> don't
> > want a gun, that's fine. There's a very good
> chance
> > that you won't need one in your lifetime.
>
> I think that the more guns we have, the more we have
> to fear, and it's my
> opinion that it's _more_ of an infringement on my
> rights to have to live with
> that fear than it would be to deprive people the
> right to carry concealed
> weapons. I don't buy the "armed society is a polite
> society" crap at all in
> fact I think our nation is absolute proof that that
> idea is hogwash.
>
It seems to me you have the same kneejerk reaction to
problems in this country that many do- legislate it
away. Look at how impossible it is to control the
supply of drugs coming into this country. Look at
what an abyssmal failure prohibition was. The
government believes that if there's a problem, they'll
simply crush it and whomever they percieve as being
associated with it along the way. The People for the
most part follow along blindly. Is it so hard to
think we need to go with alternative solutions?
> >
> > Before someone else takes the opportunity to take
> me
> > out of context again, I don't want Doug to live in
> > fear, nor would I if i didn't own a gun. But I
> would
> > hope that if I lived next to Doug and he knew me,
> he
> > would sleep a little better at night knowing that
> I
> > was near. With my gun. =P
>
> Nope. I think my chances of getting clocked with a
> stray bullet
This is where you confirm my idea that you're striving
for absolute safety. Your chances of being hit by a
stray bullet are much less than being hit by
lightning. My advice: stay underground.
while you're
> having a gun fight with a burgyaler are probably
> higher than my chances of
> getting shot by the burgyaler himself. 8^)
>
when you confront him with your bat.
> > My point is that personal firearms ownership
> should be
> > an option, it allows people who want to take
> > responsibility for themselves to do so. It would
> seem
> > obvious by now that my viewpoint isn't advocating
> the
> > unsafe posession of firearms. It's not that i
> think
> > they're neato cool so i want one, and a jetski
> too. I
> > don't walk around my house waving it around
> thinking
> > 'wow, i could shoot something if i wanted to!'. I
> > look on it as a medical kit or a spare tire- it's
> > there if needed.
>
> Well, if everyone that wanted a gun was as
> responsible as you, that might be
> OK. Unfortunately there are an awful lot of people
> out there that have little
> or no sense of responsibility (but can feign that
> they do) in whose hands a
> hand gun is an incident waiting to happen.
Please see above re: trustworthiness
> >
> > No one is going to force responsibility for your
> > personal safety on you, you have every *right* to
> > pacifism or a simple dislike of firearms.
>
> I don't care about pacifism. If some a**hole breaks
> into my place I have no
> qualms about beating the living crap out of him with
> the bat I keep handy. I
> just don't want a bunch of idiots playing secret
> agent
The vast majority of people who carry concealed
weapons are ex military, ex law enforcement, or people
who were raised with firearms and are intimately
familiar with their safe use. But don't let that stop
you from making sweeping accusations of and insulting
an entire subsection of your countrymen.
in my neighborhood.
> (Note that I'm referencing concealed carry laws in
> most of this post.)
>
> And if
> > you're wondering, I don't think less of people
> that
> > don't have a gun, they just have a different
> outlook
> > on life or different beliefs. Tolerance is good,
> so
> > i'd appreciate it if you'd tolerate the freedoms
> that
> > you don't take advantage of still existing.
>
> As long as they don't infringe on my freedoms,
> that's fine. But when firearms
> proliferate the way they have in this country, my
> rights are being infringed
> to a greater extent than gun toter's rights, IMO.
You don't seriously propose that taking away rights
from law abiding citizens to own firearms will improve
the situation?
Dean Forster
getting his second wind. maybe third.
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