--- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> If we could teach all the people responsibility and
> trustworthiness, why would
> we need firearms to protect ourselves in the first
> place?
You're confusing cause with effect. And i'm certainly
not saying that utopia is within our grasp, yet.
> >
> > It seems to me you have the same kneejerk reaction
> to
> > problems in this country that many do- legislate
> it
> > away.
>
> I didn't propose any legislation, you did. You
> proposed we allow more people
> to carry concealed weapons. In this state anyway,
> that would require
> legislation.
>
I'm not dictating to your state how it should handle
concealed weapons. To be precise, your state would
have to overturn certain legislation or add a caveat
for laws on the books that already which were passed
in spite of the 2nd amendment.
> >
> > This is where you confirm my idea that you're
> striving
> > for absolute safety. Your chances of being hit by
> a
> > stray bullet are much less than being hit by
> > lightning. My advice: stay underground.
> >
> You are taking my words out of context again. I
> didn't say that the chances
> of being hit by a stray bullet in my own home were
> high, I said that they
> might be higher than being shot in my own home by a
> criminal.
Ah, so we are back to making sure that there are as
few guns as possible near you to assure your safety.
You address this point below, i believe.
>
> > > Well, if everyone that wanted a gun was as
> > > responsible as you, that might be
> > > OK. Unfortunately there are an awful lot of
> people
> > > out there that have little
> > > or no sense of responsibility (but can feign
> that
> > > they do) in whose hands a
> > > hand gun is an incident waiting to happen.
> >
> > Please see above re: trustworthiness
> >
>
> And please note my objection to that argument.
>
Yet again, we return to your belief that others
freedoms should be curtailed (or should not be
expanded upon), by reason of your feelings.
> >
> > The vast majority of people who carry concealed
> > weapons are ex military, ex law enforcement, or
> people
> > who were raised with firearms and are intimately
> > familiar with their safe use. But don't let that
> stop
> > you from making sweeping accusations of and
> insulting
> > an entire subsection of your countrymen.
>
> Because some or even most of them are responsible
> doesn't mean all of them
> are. Most of the people mentioned above already
> have permits to carry. You
> propose we allow more people to tote weapons. That
> would increase the number
> of irresponsible people walking around with guns.
> Those are the ones I am
> refering to.
>
Right, why take the chance? It's a freedom you don't
take advantage of, so it's perfectly reasonable to
impose further restrictions.
> > You don't seriously propose that taking away
> rights
> > from law abiding citizens to own firearms will
> improve
> > the situation?
> >
> Here we go again. I say I oppose allowing concealed
> carry and you accuse me
> of wanting to ban ownership of firearms. In every
> gun thread that has
> appeared on this list, that has always been the
> firearm proponent's (dare I
> say knee-
jerk)
What did you call me? ;)
reaction to any criticism of their
> position. But OK, here it
> is again: Prohibition of firearms in this country
> would never work. It's too
> imbedded in our psyche to get rid of. It's my
> opinion that we need to
> aggressively pursue whatever measures do hold
> promise in order to aleviate the
> problem of firearms violence in this country. I
> think allowing concealed
> carry is a step in the wrong direction. I realize
> that we can not have an
> ideal world, but that doesn't mean we cant have
> ideals, does it? In the ideal
> world would we would not feel that we needed deadly
> force to protect
> ourselves. Passing laws that increase the
> dependence of citizens upon fire
> arms to protect themselves runs counter to that
> ideal.
So, i honestly want to know how you can improve upon
the regulations I described that are already in place
at least twice now. Allowing concealed carry does not
increase the dependance that any individual citizen or
group of them has on firearms by any stretch of the
imagination that I can see. If you look at it as
charging your fellow citizens who choose to take the
responsibility of a CCW, then it actually decreases
any perceived dependancy.
dean
cleaner about context
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