RE: Free Trade Benefits Everyone Re: *DO* we share a civilization?

[Baardwijk, J. van DTO/SLBD/BGM/SVM/SGM]

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Verzonden: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:35 AM
> Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Onderwerp: Free Trade Benefits Everyone Re: *DO* we share a
> civilization?

> At 09:43 PM 7/27/01 -0700 Marc Erickson wrote:
> >: Foremost among those truths are that:
> >: 1) Free-trade benefits *everyone.*
> >
> >All I have to do to disprove this is to find one person that didn't
> >benefit. I think I can do that.  :-D
> 
> By this logic, you would say that a candle-maker benefits from trade
> restrictions against lightbulbs.    In a very narrow, short-term sense,
> yes a candle-maker is harmed by trade in light bulbs, because said
> candle-maker loses his job.

He won't neccesarily lose his job, because there will still be a market for
candles. A smaller market, but a market nonetheless. (But yes, with a
smaller market it is likely that a certain number of candle-makers will lose
their jobs.)

Marc is right on this one: he needs to find only one person that doesn't
benefit from free trade to prove you wrong. Can you prove to us that he
won't be able to find such a person?


> Nevertheless, even he benefits from having cheaper lighting for himself

But will our candle-maker consider the net result a benefit? Personally, I'd
consider it a net loss if the price for cheaper lighting would be the loss
of my job (and thus, my income).


> and also because the rest of his society is able to reap the benefits
> of cheaper lighting.

John, do you even know what it's like to loose your job and income? When
something like that happens, it's NOT a consolation that the rest of society
will benefit from you losing your job. At a time like that, *you* have a
problem, a problem so big that you couldn't care less about the rest of
society.


> >: 2) Large-scale socialism doesn't work.
> >
> >Guess what, John - most European countries (and Canada) practise
> >socialism to the extent that 'large scale' might be a very good 
> >description of what they do.  Are you telling me that these countries
> >don't work?
> 
> Well, if it worked so well, why have all of these countries swung away
> from socialism over the past couple decades?

But did they really? The answer is: no, they didn't. These countries still
have socialist things like affordable health care and decent Social Security
for everyone. If they had all "swung away from socialism" they would have
ditched those horrible socialist programs as well and probably have turned
into "every man for himself" societies.

I'll admit that those countries have moved towards the right in the last few
decades, but that doesn't mean they have betrayed everything they once
believed in.


Jeroen

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