----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Re: christian dreams of murder...
> Dan wrote: > > > > It wouldn't have had the same cadence. I'd be more than willing to agree > > that Jefferson would not be too disturbed by people who just accept his > > principals as self evident Truths without worrying about how they came to > > be. But, your argument reduces them from Truth to social norms. That he > > would have trouble with. > > From Jefferson's argument in favor of the disestablishment of religion, to > be found in his "Notes on Virginia," (pp. 234-237,) > > "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are > injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there > are twenty gods or no God. Constraint may make him worse by making him a > hypocrite, but it will never make him a truer man." > > "Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments. To make way > for these free inquiry must be indulged; how can we wish others to indulge > it while we refuse it ourselves? But every state, says an inquisitor, has > established some religion. No two, say I, have established the same. Is > this a proof of the infallibility of establishments?" > > "It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand > by itself." Your quote does a good job of supporting the contention that Jefferson favored religious liberty. That he thought that there would be no harm to society for others to hold vastly different religious views, including atheism. But, that doesn't establish that those ideas are consistent with the ideas exposed by Jefferson. It seems clear to me that Jefferson felt that men should have the right to expose ideas that he strongly differed with; feeling that Truth would win out in the end. Personally, as someone who's philosophy is grounded in the enlightenment, I'd agree with that. Error should have rights. People should be allowed to expose ideas I consider very wrong. But, that is far different from stating I agree with those ideas. My contention is not that Jefferson would argue against allowing people to hold these ideas. It is that he believed that his statements in the Declaration of Independence were Truths, as he stated. The view that human rights is a cultural norm, not a truth is inconsistent with his statement. I'm sure that he'd argue for someone who believes this right to disagree with him, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a disagreement. Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
