Your quote does a good job of supporting the contention that Jefferson
favored religious liberty. That he thought that there would be no harm to society for others to hold vastly different religious views, including
atheism.
But, that doesn't establish that those ideas are consistent with the ideas exposed by Jefferson. It seems clear to me that Jefferson felt that men
should have the right to expose ideas that he strongly differed with;
feeling that Truth would win out in the end.Personally, as someone who's philosophy is grounded in the enlightenment,I'd agree with that. Error should have rights. People should be allowed to expose ideas I consider very wrong.
But, that is far different from stating I agree with those ideas. My
contention is not that Jefferson would argue against allowing people to
hold these ideas. It is that he believed that his statements in the
Declaration of Independence were Truths, as he stated. The view that human rights is a cultural norm, not a truth is inconsistent with his statement. I'm sure that he'd argue for someone who believes this right to disagree
with him, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a disagreement.
"Cultural Norms" is your term, not mine. I would say that your Truth is static and mine is dynamic. My Truth says that the term "human rights" can not possibly mean the same thing now than it did when we were on the threshold of sentience; that it has grown and changed and will continue to adapt to our civilization (and our civilization to it) as we continue to grow and change.
Note also that I have never called myself an atheist. I consider it possible (but undeterminable) that there are superior life forms. But like the Deists that helped found our country (Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Monroe and Paine among them), I reject the Christian God(s) and believe Jesus was a man, not a deity. As Jeffferson said:
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies" (Letter to Dr. Woods)."
and
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 365).
Though I am not sold on the existence of a Deity and of life after death as Jefferson apparently was, I think that my ideas on Truth and rights and religion are at least as compatible with his as yours are being you are given to believing in the hocus pocus of mainstream Christianity and (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) the doctrine of Calvin with which Jefferson was in opposition.
My original contention on this thread was that the term Creator and more specifically "their Creator" is deliberately ambiguous in order to entertain the beliefs of all moral humans, whether or not they had a philosophy compatible with the authors. As Thomas Paine said:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
Or as Jefferson wrote to his young nephew Peter Carr:
"Fix Reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason than of blindfolded fear. ... Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you" (Jefferson's Works, Vol. ii., p. 217).
-- Doug _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
