I know what a meme is. I meant I couldn't understand what you were saying.
> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Henson > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:12 AM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: RE: Meta Level was Winning the War on Terror > > At 11:33 PM 01/04/04 -0800, Mike Lee wrote: > > >Note to Keith: saying "meme" a lot doesn't make you intelligible. > > Sorry. I didn't realize the term was unfamiliar within this group. > > A meme is an element of culture, a replicating information > pattern affecting behavior. There are many other related > definitions that are also ok as long as you get the idea of a > spreading idea over. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics > > I wrote one of the earliest popular articles on memes > "MEMETICS AND THE MODULAR-MIND" in Analog (1987). > > http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=hkhensonE5ozq9.K8x%40netco m.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain > > It was reprinted in Whole Earth Review and that version is > webbed here: > > http://www.nancho.net/memes/infoviru.html > > "The entire topic would be academic except that there > are two levels of evolution (genes and memes) involved and > the memetic level is only loosely coupled to the genetic. > Memes which override genetic survival, such as those which > induce young Lebanese Shiites to blow themselves "into the > next world" from the front seat of a truck loaded with high > explosives, or induce untrained Iranians to volunteer to > charge Iraqi machine guns, or the WWII Kamikaze "social > movement" in Japan are all too well known. I have proposed > the term "memeoid" for people whose behavior is so strongly > influenced by a replicating information pattern (meme) that > their survival becomes inconsequential in their own minds." > > 18 years later and in view of the rich developments in > evolutionary psychology, I now think that the particular > class of xenophobic memes that drives tribes (or nations) > into wars is *tightly coupled* to genes. > > War was an adaptive response of genes to overpopulation and > periodic privation/starvation during the vast majority of our > evolution when we lived as hunter gatherers. For details of > my horrified thoughts on this subject you can put "xenophobic > memes" (with quotes) in Google. I am almost the only one > using that term. > > Incidentally, war may be highly non-adaptive for technologies > higher than hunter gatherer. For example, warfare in the > American Southwest starting about 1250 CE and the response > the tribes made (moving into forts) was incompatible with > their corn farming technology. This incompatibility caused > continuing privation driven war. The result was that most of > the population died out in a generation. It is quite a > story. http://www.athenapub.com/8prewar.htm > > Easter Island is another spectacular example of humans > switching into war mode. In that case, war and starvation > reduced the population to perhaps 1000 people from a peak > that might have been up to 20,000. At the much lower > population level the environment was able to recover somewhat > and with the rise in per capita income (mostly food) warfare > switched off. > > It is unnerving to discover what looks like an airtight > evolutionary psychology based argument that humans have > conditionally activated psychological traits that (among > other things) massively impair rational thinking. This is > because genes that turned off rational thinking in some > circumstances did better over the long haul. > > If you can find a flaw in my reasoning on this subject, I > would be very interested in hearing about it. > > Keith Henson > > (from the above URL) > > From AD 1150 to 1250, communities became more defensive in > location and construction, incidents of violence increased, > and the new social system disintegrated. The Late Period (AD > 1250 to Spanish Contact) is described by LeBlanc as a time of > "crisis and catastrophe." Within 50 years the entire > population of the Colorado Plateau moved into approximately > 100 very large communities constructed in clusters of 2 to 18 > pueblos. Many were built with line-of-sight communication in > mind. Over time the communities declined in size and most of > them were completely abandoned. Finally, the entire Colorado > Plateau was reduced to 3 clusters of sites: Acoma, Hopi, and > Zuni. At the time of Spanish Contact, Acoma consisted of a > single pueblo and Hopi and Zuni both had been reduced to 6 or > 7 pueblos each. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Henson > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:13 PM > > > To: Killer Bs Discussion > > > Subject: Meta Level was Winning the War on Terror > > > > > > At 03:34 PM 30/03/04 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > The truth is that sufficient violence ends violence. > > > > > > > > > > That is true enough. But that only works when you can > seal the > > > > > outlines of the geographical area and flood the same > with your > > > > > troops. > > > > > > > >It also works if you are violent enough to convince the rest of > > > >them they need to knock if off or they're next. Remember, we > > > don't want to > > > >occupy and control these countries. And the violence > we've already > > > >visited on them has made a few of them blink (like Qaddafi Duck). > > > > > > > > > > I prefer to give them a memory of a mushroom cloud > over Medina > > > > > > that will make them remember that they shouldn't fuck > > > with the adults. > > > > > > Quick comment on Mike's postings and related material such as > > > America the Theocracy. > > > > > > This spread of xenophobic memes such as Mike advances is to be > > > expected for both being attacked and widespread belief in a tribe > > > substitute (nation) that the future is bleak. The US's economic > > > situation--converting to a third world income > distribution--is such > > > that a huge number of people in the US have seen their > incomes fall. > > > > > > If I am right about the way human psychological traits > map from the > > > tribal days, this is one of the two things that increase the > > > circulation of > > > xenophobic memes. The other one is being attacked. The > > > evolved purpose > > > of spreading xenophobic memes was to sync a tribe's > warriors up to > > > attack. > > > > > > If the build up of xenophobic memes continues long enough, the US > > > will see massive public support for attacks that will > kill millions, > > > perhaps hundreds of millions. Hunter gatherer tribes would > > > sometimes kill everyone in an attacking tribe though they usually > > > just killed the males. > > > > > > Will it go that far? It's hard to say, it certainly did > in Rwanda. > > > > > > Keith Henson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l > _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
